What is the right choice for floor mats in an RV?

[DanH]

Originally Posted by TCSMOORE

This may be an option? http://www.megasorber.com/soundproof...-material.html

Appears to be a fine product for its intended purpose, architectural sound damping. The test parameters I was able to find are pretty loose (AS/NZS 3837:1998, see below) and the heat flux (0 to 100 kW/m2) is zip to quite small. The "fireproof" and "fire resistant" claims may not hold up in a firewall application, as none of it is rated anything like 2000F. They'll probably pass the "Little Johnny with a Zippo" test, and as such might make a good cabin wall insulator.

1.1.3 Test parameters Specimens may be exposed to heating fluxes ranging from 0 to 100 kW/m2. External ignition, when used, is by electric spark. The value of the heating flux and the use of external ignition are to be as specified in the relevant material or performance standard. The normal specimen testing orientation is horizontal, independent of whether the end-use application involves a horizontal or a vertical orientation. Provisions are also made for vertical orientation testing; this is intended for exploratory or diagnostic studies only. NOTES:
1 The test method does not prescribe the irradiance levels nor whether external ignition is to be used. For an insight into the development of the test method, the features of the apparatus and the use of the data, see Appendix A. 2 See Appendix B for a list of papers that provide additional technical background.

[RVTOY]

I have been looking through old threads that gave me the info on installing a dense light weigth foam sheeting that was fire resistant sheet (from spruce) between floor angles. "Sorry got to busy to continue". Glue the foam to the floor and cover with aluminum sheet. I believe they were saying .040 aluminum cover and also to glue to the foam to make a sandwich. foam should be slightly taller than angles so you don't get any vibrations to your feet. I than bought very thin (and I mean very thin light weight) foam backing mats from kitchen and bath store that came close to my color and made hooks to keep in place but removable. If you lived near Corona California, I would give you my aboundant amout of left overs. Yea, it works great and I just go to the store an $20 later have a new floor color.

[aparchment]

Not to take this thread too far off track, but are any of you familiar with coatings that would reduce the heat on the firewall or exhaust exit area? One of the model jet manufacturers uses this:

http://shopbvmjets.com/zencart/index...products_id=29

It is a brush on ceramic coating that is supposed to reduce the transmission of heat.

[Charles in SC]

Originally Posted by rzbill

I saw that in an RV-6 some years ago. I should have put some stainless on the belly but I was not thinking about it as a solution when I built my chariot. I chose to make 3/4" thick aluminum foil encased "pillows" of McMaster Carr ceramic batting to nest in-between the floor stiffeners and turn a few inches up the firewall. I covered the pillows with a couple of floorboards I made out of some Kevlar I had from years gone by. Made a nice flat floor.

I have used McMaster's ceramic fiber insulation to insulate the firebox on several bbq cookers and can attest to the insulation and fire-resistant qualities of it. I have welded steel right over it and it did not faze it. It is good stuff.
I am curious, what did you use for the aluminum foil? And where did you get it?
Thanks for the idea!

[vfrazier]

Originally Posted by DanH

Heat Shield mat on the front side and black foam rubber on the cabin side. Yeah, let's put that combo on the test rig. How about it Vince? Need 2'x2' of each material.

No. The black foam would undoubtedly fail in a spectacular fashion, as would just about anything that isn't stainless steel, ceramic, or other elemental material.

Materials used to insulate the cockpit side of the firewall present many unique problems, including flammability, moisture retention, oil/fuel absorption, durability, and material hazards during installation due to inhalation of fibers, etc.

Dan, I appreciate your work, but there are compromises everywhere in aviation. For me, the materials I chose are a reasonable compromise between cost, durability, ease of installation, and performance. And they are safe to work with, and won't degrade into carcinogenic fibers.

For full disclosure, we sell the Heatshield Mat. Used properly, it should present no real hazard. We do NOT sell the black foam, mainly due to Dan's concerns and data. He is absolutely correct that it could be a risk, but so are the 50 gallons of gasoline that we sit between.

Like Dan, I'm not new to aviation either. I am usually appalled by the insulation found in many GA planes. You'll find putty, tar, loose fiberglass, and other horrible (but cheap) choices that the manufacturer made.

I absolutely HATE the nasty fiberglass insulation in my Debonair and other GA planes. The fibers undoubtedly are a chronic hazard. Personally, I'll take the relatively small risk posed by the black foam behind my RV firewall over those other materials every time.

YMMV. Use my techniques at your own risk!

[DanH]

Originally Posted by vfrazier

No. The black foam would undoubtedly fail in a spectacular fashion, as would just about anything that isn't stainless steel, ceramic, or other elemental material.
Materials used to insulate the cockpit side of the firewall present many unique problems, including flammability, moisture retention, oil/fuel absorption, durability, and material hazards during installation due to inhalation of fibers, etc.

Correct, which is why the cabin side of a firewall should have nothing on it, not even paint.

Dan, I appreciate your work, but there are compromises everywhere in aviation. For me, the materials I chose are a reasonable compromise between cost, durability, ease of installation, and performance. And they are safe to work with, and won't degrade into carcinogenic fibers.

Reasonable compromise suggests a rational balance. What exactly do you get in trade? What is the benefit so valuable that you would risk blazing rubber and thick black smoke in the event of an engine compartment fire?

Personally, I'll take the relatively small risk posed by the black foam behind my RV firewall over those other materials every time.

You have a relatively small risk of engine compartment fire. The plastic or rubber firewall/floor insulation is a huge risk, because there is a high probability that it will escalate an unpleasant event into an unsurvivable event.

From NTSB #LAX99LA063....a very good pilot, flying a Rocket, with fire developed in the traffic pattern:

The passenger stated he saw light gray smoke in the cockpit and notified the pilot. The pilot secured the master switch and turned onto the base leg. At this point the passenger did not observe flames or feel any heat. As the airplane turned wings level onto final, thick black smoke that smelled like burning fiberglass or plastic filled the cockpit. After the airplane came to rest, he observed flames around the pilot and felt high heat. He yelled to the pilot to open the canopy, but the pilot responded he could not get it to open. Momentarily, the canopy opened halfway.

As the rescuers arrived, flames were still coming from under the cowling. The front cockpit was so filled with smoke that they could not see if the pilot was still in the airplane.

[JonJay]

Originally Posted by DanH

From NTSB #LAX99LA063....a very good pilot, flying a Rocket, with fire developed in the traffic pattern:

The passenger stated he saw light gray smoke in the cockpit and notified the pilot. The pilot secured the master switch and turned onto the base leg. At this point the passenger did not observe flames or feel any heat. As the airplane turned wings level onto final, thick black smoke that smelled like burning fiberglass or plastic filled the cockpit. After the airplane came to rest, he observed flames around the pilot and felt high heat. He yelled to the pilot to open the canopy, but the pilot responded he could not get it to open. Momentarily, the canopy opened halfway.

As the rescuers arrived, flames were still coming from under the cowling. The front cockpit was so filled with smoke that they could not see if the pilot was still in the airplane.

How about going to ICO and shutting off the fuel selector?

[bkilby]

I used aluminum honeycomb. It weighs almost nothing and incredibly strong. The same stuff gulfstream uses in their jets for floorboards.

[Raymo]

Originally Posted by bkilby

I used aluminum honeycomb. It weighs almost nothing and incredibly strong. The same stuff gulfstream uses in their jets for floorboards.

That was my thought as well. Any recommendation on source?

[grayforge]

Here's one:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#aluminum-ho...sheets/=wr0e1p