Did your helper buck or rivet?

prkaye · #1 11-08-2006, 10:10 AM

It seems to me that most builders get their helper to hold the bucking bar. Is bucking really the easier job? I figured it would be easier to train my wife on the rivet gun, and I'll do the bucking (that way I'm already on the shop-head side to inspect each rivet as they're being set).
What have other people found to be the easier job for the helper?

dan · #2 11-08-2006, 10:17 AM

FWIW, I MUCH prefer to have the inexperienced helper SHOOT. I'm of the mindset that the bucker is the one who's responsible for the quality of the shop head. More than 50% responsible, that's for sure!! All the shooter has to do is keep the thing stable, pull the trigger, and let off the trigger after some reasonable duration.

cjensen · #3 11-08-2006, 10:22 AM

Try it both ways on a practice piece, or in a inconspicuous place. Maybe she bucks a great shop head! Maybe she's a better shooter. When I have help, if it's my dad, we alternate, if it's my wife, she shoots.

N282RV · #4 11-08-2006, 10:26 AM

I started out letting my wife buck, I found that it takes more know how to buck correctly than it does to shoot correctly. After a little training she got pretty good shooting 426-3. The only thing she didnt pick up on right away was the sound of a good or bad rivet, if it sounds bad stop pulling the trigger and figure out what the problem is. The first time I had a problem bucking and she was driving the gun she just kept going and I was screaming for her to stop but between the gun, ear plugs ect. she didnt stop till she was ready.....

Of course there are ways to mess up with the gun that will be visible to the outside world of you aircraft so its a judgment call as to what you allow who to shoot or buck. My father in law holds a bucking bar so firm that you would think you were bucking into a steel wall. On the other hand my wife.....not so well. and if its a tight/hard place to get a bar into you have to know how the bar will bounce and adjust for it during the bucking.
Anyway short answer is teach em to shoot, use two hands, one on the grip and trigger and the other hands thumb and index finger guiding the set to insure no slippage. Put it this way when I am over helping my buddy with his plane, Ill shoot, he can buck. Less liability that way.

C-GRVT · #5 11-08-2006, 11:44 AM

It's easier to teach a helper to operate the gun. You, as bucker, get to contort yourself wherever, choose which bar works best/or at all, hold it absolutely at right angles to the rivet, and pass a rivet as acceptable or not and move on.
There was a good comment on this list by Scott McDaniels re. operating the gun - use a (modified) swivel head for flush rivets, ensure perpendicularity with the skin reflection, and hold the set with the other hand to stop it slipping.
I would add that a selection of bucking bars, including home made, is really helpful, especially a relatively small rectangular block with a 45 degree side.
Bill
rv-6A fuselage in progress,
Ottawa, Canada

Rick6a · #6 11-08-2006, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prkaye

......I figured it would be easier to train my wife on the rivet gun, and I'll do the bucking...........

Your instincts are correct. Bucking requires a certain level of skill and a tolerance to endure uncomfortable physical situations. In addition, a good bucker almost instinctively knows how much pressure to apply to the work and when to back off. Many times, even building something as simple as an RV, there will be hard to reach situations that require some creativity to buck the rivet well.

Shooting, on the other hand, only requires you teach your wife to hold the rivet gun securely and to make sure the rivet set is placed squarely upon the work.

The exception to this general rule is if you elect to BACKRIVET. In that case, it is a simple thing for your wife to simply hold a bucking bar against the rivet while YOU shoot from the opposite side. This is a good option to use when you want to guard against dents at all costs and the skill level of your helper is unknown or known to be less than skilled.

In the production environment, 2-person riveting teams are an everyday fact of work life. If you could take a poll of these people, you would likely discover that overwhelmingly, given the choice almost all prefer to shoot. I only met one guy in 34 years who actually preferred to buck and I always let him have his way.

Bob Axsom · #7 11-08-2006, 01:55 PM

In almost every instance where I had to get into a difficult spot and let someone else use the gun while I bucked I had to do repair work. My wife got the hang of it and did OK but was never comfortable on the gun end of the job. All the bucker has to do is hold the bar steady on the rivet. The person with the gun has all the control.

Bob Axsom

mlw450802 · #8 11-08-2006, 02:24 PM

I use a swivel-head set for flush rivets so that gun perpendicularity is not so critical and I let my wife rivet while I buck. I find that I have a better feel of the progress of shop head formation and can adjust the bucking bar slightly to get better results.
She has more problems riveting on the universal head rivets, though, and often will release pressure on the rivet head before she is through pulling the trigger. That invariably results in a smiley at the very least. So on those, I rivet.
-mike

Allen Barrett · #9 11-08-2006, 02:54 PM

it is my experience to NEVER put a weapon in a womans control,

JimWoo50 · #10 11-08-2006, 04:08 PM

So i let him buck what with his skinny arms he could get into the tight spots easier and he did a real good job. But with my wife she feels more comfortable with the gun so I let her do that; and I am so glad to have the help I try to accomodate them anyway I can.