Dynon Skyview ADSB

[GaryK]

Looking for some input on upgrading to include ADSB out and in.

I have the following equipment relevant to the question
Dual 10" Skyveiw
GTN 650
Garmin 327

I'd like to display traffic and weather on The Skyveiw. According to Dynon they don't support displaying ADSB traffic or weather from another manufacturer. I really don't want to replace the Garmin 327 with a 330ES as I'd have to also replace the tray and it's pricey. So that leaves me with adding a Dynon (Trigg) transponder behind the panel and the Dynon ADSB-470. Total price is less than replacing the 327 with a 330. I'd either have a hole in the stack or just leave the 327 to fill the spot.

My wife flys with me a lot and really wants to have traffic and weather, it's just a comfort thing as we had it in our 7A. She knows we have 5 more years to comply but doesn't care, she wants it now.

Does anyone have any other suggestions. I really liked the idea of the L-3 as I could use my 327, unfortunately Dynon will not support it.

Thanks
Gary

[BobTurner]

If you don't want a hole in your stack you may be able to sell the 327 and replace it with a Trig TT31 mode S-ES. I think it is the same height, but does require a couple of inches more depth (about). Compare the cost to the Dynon (Trig clone) transponder, decide what you want to do.
Also, as of this writing, I don't think the TT31 is "officially" paired with the GTN series as a position source, although it is with the 4x0W series and I think they both use the same Garmin ADSB+ format, but what do I know? Same may be true for the Dynon transponder. I have little doubt these things will happen, but as of now they are not official.
It sounds like you have no option other than the Dynon ADSB-in if you want to display data on the Dynon. Of course if it's JUST for the wife, you can get a Skyradar, Dual, etc., and an iPad with WingX and hand it to her.

[dynonsupport]

The news is just starting to come out, but another option is the Freeflight system. It's fully compliant OUT for $1,995:

http://www.equipit2020.com/

Then you get the Dynon IN box for $995, and for under $3,000 you are fully compliant with no new holes in your panel.

The only thing we don't support is someone else's IN receiver. You can use another OUT to wake up the ground stations.

[TTU_RV7]

Gary,

First my disclosure statement: I work at FreeFlight Systems in Irving. As stated in my signature block, I was building a 7A, but the kit, Reserve Duty, and work took too much away from the family so I sold the kit and am now looking at completed projects.

With the setup you have, there really are lots of options available; it's really a matter of your preferences. FreeFlight of course offers several options that meet your needs, but if you want it displayed on your SkyViews, then right now I believe you have to go with the Dynon IN solution since they do not support other manufacturers. This paired with either the FreeFlight EquipIt2020 solution or the L-3 box sounds like a good solution. I will point out that the FreeFlight EquipIt2020 $1995 offering includes the FDL-978-TXL unit, both the GPS and ADS-B antennas, install kit, and control head. With the GTX-327, you will not need the control head, but it is part of the package being shipped to dealers.

If you are not dead set on displaying ADS-B IN on your SkyView, then another option is to use the GTN650 you have installed. Garmin offers the GDL-88, which gives you ADS-B out and will display ADS-B In on the 650.

Another option is to display ADS-B In on an iPad or other tablet device. If this is an acceptable, then you have even more options. One is to do either the FreeFlight EquipIt2020 system or L-3 unit mentioned above with a Stratus Device. To be honest, I?m not that familiar with the Status device, so I?m not sure how it is powered, and I believe it only works with ForeFlight on the iPad.

If you want a more integrated approach, then there is also the Garmin GDL-84, which is a de-featured GDL-88. It provides ADS-B Out/In with built in WiFi; however, I believe the WiFi only connects to the Garmin iPad app.

The other integrated approach is the other FreeFlight offering under the EquipIt2020 program mentioned earlier. It is an ADS-B Out/In package includes that includes a separate WiFi module. This solution allows you to use a number of iPad and Android apps.

These are the solutions I can think of that might work for you, and I?m sure I?ve missed a few, but I hope this helps in your search.

Mike

[KRviator]

Originally Posted by TTU_RV7

This paired with either the FreeFlight EquipIt2020 solution or the L-3 box sounds like a good solution. I will point out that the FreeFlight EquipIt2020 $1995 offering includes the FDL-978-TXL unit, both the GPS and ADS-B antennas, install kit, and control head.

G'day Mike,

A quick question about the FreeFlight solution if I may. The part number is FDL-978-TXL, presumably this refers to the frequency it operates on, that is it is a UAT, not a 1090ES system?

My understanding is the US is the only country using 978 over 1090ES, so are there any plans to expand the range to include 1090?

[dynonsupport]

If you want to use 1090, this is a Mode-S transponder. You can't make an add-on ADS-B OUT on the 1090 frequency, it must be part of your transponder. The nice part there is that a Mode-S transponder costs about the same as a Mode-C today.

[GaryK]

Mike,
Thanks for all the good data points.
Both Freeflight and L-3 look interesting as they can use the Garmin 327. I've done as much research as I can as they are both fairly new solutions.

Getting ADSB "in" to display on the Skyview is a simple choice, it can only be a Dynon solution. I understand why Dynon chooses to be a closed system but the flexibility of the GRT equipment was nice.

One thing I don't like about the Freeflight or L-3 is the need for yet another antenna. you end up with one for the 327, one for the Freeflight or L-3 "out" and another for the Dynon "in". The spacing becomes a challenge, Freeflight, Navworx and L-3 want at least 5-7 feet from the transponder antenna and the "in" antenna needs to be at least 2 feet from both.

If I just replace the 327 with a Trig TT31 it's just one additional antenna for the Dynon "in" and I can deal with the 2 ft plus placement. I was going to go down the Garmin 330ES route but the tray would require major modification to the sub panel behind the instrument panel. The TT31 is about 1.5" shorter.

BTW.. The TT31 is certified with the GNS 430W and 530W for ADSB out. The paperwork has been submitted for certifying the TT31/ GTNxxx series by Peregrine in CO. I spoke with Peregrine yesterday and they expect approval by July. My guess is it may take longer but I'm OK with that.

For now I ordered the Dynon ADSB -470 module and will keep looking at options for the "out" portion. I know I'll only receive weather at this point.

There is so much happening in this space I'm sure other options and solutions will be forthcoming.

Thanks again to everyone who replied

Gary

[KRviator]

Originally Posted by dynonsupport

If you want to use 1090, this is a Mode-S transponder. You can't make an add-on ADS-B OUT on the 1090 frequency, it must be part of your transponder. The nice part there is that a Mode-S transponder costs about the same as a Mode-C today.

But you still need a certified position source for that transponder. The FreeFlight solution includes that, with the UAT for under $2,000 that is suitable for US pilots. For those outside the US, to get the equivalent using the 1090ES system you'll need a FreeFlight 1201 ($2,900) and a Mode S transponder ($2,200 for the Dynon Cl 2 one) for over $5,000, AIUI.

And you still can't use the certified GPS that's driving your ADSB as part of your navigation solution as it doesn't have a database or way of showing you your position. It wouldn't be so bad if I could plan /G with the FF1201 and SkyView, but to get that capability, it is another $3-5000 for a -400 series Garmin, because you can't use a C129 GPS for ADSB out.

[Jesse]

You could also add the NavWorx EXP box for out/in and use the Dynon receiver for in as well. This would cost about $2,000 total. You could use the NavWorx in via wifi if you want to, but it's probably the cheapest out solution for you.

If it were me, I would pull the 327 and sell it (while you can, you should be able to get about $900-1,000 for it), and install the remote Dynon/trig unit to control via the Skyview. That would cost a net of $1,200-1,300 and you would just have to put something over the hole where the 327 came out. The wiring for the Dynon unit is extremely simple, and you probably already have the wires in the 327 harness that you will need from the Dynon and the GTN-650, as well as power and ground.

[GaryK]

Thanks for all the great input. I have decided to go with the. Dynon/Trig, ADSB out solution

I'll need to run a new wire from the GTN650 to the Trig for the GPS signal. Can someone confirm that any of the RS-232 TX outputs on the P1001 connector are OK to use.

Does the GTN series use the high density Sub D pins?

Thanks
Gary