Through The Fence Agreements

topgun260 · #1 03-01-2015, 07:22 PM

I know many of you live with your RV so I am hoping that some of you may have personal experience or information about Through The Fence Agreements at public airports that you would be willing to share. I am currently going through the process and would like to know what others have agreed to, specifically those that had preexisting TTF agreements at their airport. How much do you pay and what is it based on? What did rights did you give up? Did anybody successfully fight it? Anything would be helpful. If you don't want to post specifics in the forum please feel free to PM me with any info or contact information.

Thanks,

Brian

pierre smith · #2 03-02-2015, 05:37 AM

I bought a couple of acres adjoining the airport about 15 years ago, after I met with our City council and informed them of my intent. There was already another private hangar that had 'through-the-fence access, so I held the upper hand

They put in a paved taxiway to my hangar and we agreed on $250 a year for runway access.

Two years ago they decided to fence the airport all the way around and I was going to be fenced OUT! So I offered them the land that my hangar was on for a dollar. They said that that would complicate the issue after my death. I then decided to offer them the hangar and land to include me inside the fence.

They agreed to that and the sale was made and I'm inside the fence. I now pay $400 a month rent but have no property taxes so all in all, a pretty fair deal.

At the closing, my attorney said that I have done my wife a big favor because upon my death, all she'll need to do is have a big auction to get rid of the Air Tractors and RV-10, after my will has been fulfilled as to my children and what they're left. In a small 2800 person town, there aren't many hangar buyers anyway, so it all turned out well.

Best,

pierre smith · #3 03-02-2015, 07:34 AM

BTW, the FAA does not like TTF operations at all. I had discussed this with them, since the city refused to allow me to build on the airport property.

They said that it's done in many places and you pay rent to the city for the use of the land. You may also have to show in your will, that they have the right to first refusal upon your death....another alternative. The city maintained that you cannot build a private building on city owned property but that's not true..you can and just 24 miles from here there are around a dozen privately owned hangars in Sandersville, Ga.

Best,

topgun260 · #4 03-02-2015, 02:51 PM

The property that I own has had Through The Fence access for almost 20 years. No fees were charged and all we had to do is keep the gate and taxiway maintained.
Now they want us to sign a new agreement. For the airport access fee, they want to charge us a fee that is based on the square footage of our hangars. The fee will be the same price per square foot that hangar owners inside the fence pay for the lease on the land that their hangar sits on. Is this a normal way to set an access fee for TTF users?

Veetail88 · #5 03-02-2015, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topgun260

they want to charge us a fee that is based on the square footage of our hangars. The fee will be the same price per square foot that hangar owners inside the fence pay for the lease on the land that their hangar sits on. Is this a normal way to set an access fee for TTF users?

While I have absolutely no experience with this, I do have an opinion (doesn't everyone?), and this seems like an equitable and fair approach to me.

9GT · #6 03-02-2015, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topgun260

The property that I own has had Through The Fence access for almost 20 years. No fees were charged and all we had to do is keep the gate and taxiway maintained.
Now they want us to sign a new agreement. For the airport access fee, they want to charge us a fee that is based on the square footage of our hangars. The fee will be the same price per square foot that hangar owners inside the fence pay for the lease on the land that their hangar sits on. Is this a normal way to set an access fee for TTF users?

The airport I hanger at is owned by the city. There are a few very old privately owned hangers. Their monthly land lease is almost as much as the monthly rent on the very nice, and fairly new, city owned hangers.

DHeal · #7 03-02-2015, 04:33 PM

Lots of information on the FAA's position regarding TTF on FAA AIP-funded airports at: www.faa.gov

Also take a look at the FAA's Airport Compliance Manual - Order 5190.6B at:

http://www.faa.gov/airports/resource...liance_5190_6/

topgun260 · #8 03-03-2015, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veetail88

While I have absolutely no experience with this, I do have an opinion (doesn't everyone?), and this seems like an equitable and fair approach to me.

You certainly are entitled to your opinion. I certainly have no problem paying my fair share. I am interested in learning what others have agreed to in other TTF agreements.

My opinion is that "airport access charges" should be similar for everyone using the airport. At our airport there are users(pilots and aircraft owners) that are not paying anything. Also, there are no tie down fees so if you want to keep your plane outside you pay nothing. Your access is free. There is also a parcel that would be included in this TTF agreement that has no hangar but does have access to the runway. Does that parcel receive free access because he doesn't have a hangar? My point is that charging by the size of a hangar that is on private property outside the fence doesn't seem like a fair or equitable way to levee an access charge to enter the airport. Maybe a fee that each local pilot user and aircraft owner would be more fair? That would certainly be more equitable than having so many ways for users to access and use the airport without paying "airport access charges" that the FAA now requires.

hydroguy2 · #9 03-04-2015, 09:49 AM

I don't have the lease form in front of me....but when I was on the Airport Board, we got a TTF lease arrangement for recreational dirt strip, Canyon Ferry (8U9) approved for a fellow outside the fence. It was a battle but long story short...

The people outside the fence pay a fee based on the area taken up by the taxiway and gate equal to what a hangar of similar size would pay. So basically anyone who uses that gate would pay the same rate. Actually is pretty cheap, like a $150/yr. The Board only approved 1 common shared gate, and owners must tow their planes onto the field. This was due to the road next to the fence which has the potential for kids on bikes or campers on 4whlrs etc.

A lot of whining on both sides of the issue, but the plane owner also had the right to put in Tiedowns inside the gate.

Sidenote: we had several derelict planes tied down at 8U8 paved ramp. There was no fee, so nobody seemed to care. We added a clause for $50/month long-term tiedown fee and proof of current insurance. Overnighters or short term visitors got a pass. Once the word got spread and we sent a few bills to people, The ramp got cleared of those flat tired hulks.

rvbuilder2002 · #10 03-04-2015, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topgun260

My opinion is that "airport access charges" should be similar for everyone using the airport. At our airport there are users(pilots and aircraft owners) that are not paying anything. Also, there are no tie down fees so if you want to keep your plane outside you pay nothing..

I have access to a private (never has received any federal funding, but I think the considerations should be the same) airport from my property.
I pay an access fee equiv. to the minimum any other aircraft owner would have to pay to be based at, and use the airport. It is the same as the outdoor tie down space fee.