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12-26-2014, 08:28 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 95
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__________________
Greg Wilkinson
RV-9A
St. Thomas, ON Canada
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12-26-2014, 08:40 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
Posts: 305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbird
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On the question of gear-up or gear-down in a water ditching, he says:
" We think the best you can do is to examine the big picture: Irrespective of aircraft configuration, do the pilots and crew get out of the airplane after impact? Yes, overwhelmingly. How often does the airplane flip over because the gear caught in the water? We don't really know. But even if all the airplanes flipped--highly unlikely--the occupants still manage to egress safely. Conclusion: It may not matter much.
From films of live ditchings and interviews with survivors, our impression is that most airplanes don't flip, but dig in one wing, turn and settle upright or settle straight ahead with a bit of nose under moment. But, we simply don't have enough reliable information to make a definitive judgement on this. Our best advice is make your own assessment and configure the airplane accordingly."
__________________
Arlen
Donation to VAF 10.29.18
RV-6, February '14, SOLD December '15
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12-26-2014, 08:56 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
Posts: 305
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Here's a glider ditching -- looks like no big deal: http://youtu.be/QphwzcpTESw
But he's got no gear sticking out to grab the water...
__________________
Arlen
Donation to VAF 10.29.18
RV-6, February '14, SOLD December '15
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12-26-2014, 11:59 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Salmon Arm, BC
Posts: 933
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Here is an update to the "Ditching myths debunked" article. This one specifically addresses trees versus water. The conclusion is that both have a similar survival rate, with trees being slightly ahead (but probably within the margin of error). The risk of serious injury is significantly higher in the trees. However in water there is some risk of drowning after surviving the landing, a risk that essentially does not exist with the trees. Pick your poison!
http://www.equipped.com/watertrees.htm
__________________
Mark Olson
1987 RV-4 Sold
2003 Super Decathlon - Sold
F1 EVO Rocket, first flight May 31/14
First in line for the Sonex JSX-2T kit
Last edited by SMO : 12-27-2014 at 12:08 AM.
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12-27-2014, 12:15 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlen
On the question of gear-up or gear-down in a water ditching, he says:
"We think the best you can do is to examine the big picture: Irrespective of aircraft configuration, do the pilots and crew get out of the airplane after impact? Yes, overwhelmingly. How often does the airplane flip over because the gear caught in the water? We don't really know. But even if all the airplanes flipped--highly unlikely--the occupants still manage to egress safely. Conclusion: It may not matter much.
From films of live ditchings and interviews with survivors, our impression is that most airplanes don't flip, but dig in one wing, turn and settle upright or settle straight ahead with a bit of nose under moment. But, we simply don't have enough reliable information to make a definitive judgement on this. Our best advice is make your own assessment and configure the airplane accordingly."
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I can not refute the evidence they are talking about. One important piece of info missing from the article is what the ration of fixed gear to retract aircraft was in the sample cases looked at. All I know for my self is the two RV ditching accidents I am familiar with (one a first hand account from the pilot on board an RV-8A), both ended up inverted.
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Last edited by rvbuilder2002 : 12-27-2014 at 12:22 AM.
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12-27-2014, 12:55 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Apparently some people like ditching aircraft in the water...
http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.av...13X34543&key=1
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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12-27-2014, 05:26 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cumming, Georgia
Posts: 873
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This is one reason I built a tipper, since I have been to the islands several times in various aircraft and once in my RV7. I gave my wife a briefing as we left Ft. Pierce and told her that in the advent of an emergency that resulted in us having to ditch.
1. we would already have the life vest on.
2. We would already be talking to Miami so they would know and head for any ship we saw. I'd be like a torpedo over their bow.
3. at 2000 feet MSL we would disconnect the Hydraulic arms to the canopy
4. tighten the harness as tight as you can possibly get it.
5. put one of our blankets in front of your face.
6. we will say a quick prayer, duck as low as we could behind the panel and pull the release handle on the canopy 
7. Hopefully we will be near an island.
That was the basics to the instructions. Hopefully it will never happen.
That being said one of the terrible thoughts on ditching in aircraft is that a passenger might inflate the vest and not be able to get out the little windows on so many cabin aircraft.
or if you survive the ditching... they take the raft out inflate it and get on the wing but fail to tie it to the little Red metal tab just outside the emergency exit on most jets and the raft floats away.
__________________
Smilin' Jack & Anita Hunt
N507H RV7, KJZP Jasper, GA
EAA690
APRS/ WB4JKY
Retired Corporate Pilot CFI-AI, MEL
CE500, LRJT, HS25, C650, SBJT, CL60
Hunt Aviation, LLC.
Pilot Service, IPC's Biennials.
Comm Glider
Last edited by Smilin' Jack : 12-27-2014 at 05:30 AM.
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12-27-2014, 06:42 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 1,168
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One factor that should also be a consideration is water temp. Your time in the water where you can actually function is just minutes with a 40 degree water temp. Warm water I would be inclined to ditch rather then go into trees. Cold water I will take the trees every time.
George
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12-27-2014, 06:59 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springer
I have watched WWII vids of aircraft ditching near the carrier. In some cases one wing hit the water first causing the aircraft to cartwheel and remain upright. I wonder if forced to ditch we would have a better chance of staying upright by doing the same.
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One of the old POH's I have for s certified plane recommends putting one wing the water first to avoid going over.
I have a friend and fellow RV builder who ditched a Cherokee on the way back from the Bahamas. It was just he and his wife on board.
He said that they were not wearing their life vets or safety gear and once the engine stopped the put that stuff on their laps.
When the plane hit, that gear was all thrown into the foot well and they never retrieved any of it.
He said that as soon as the plane stopped moving he egressed the plane and couldn't find his wife so he started to swim back towards the plane only to see his wife pop up out of the water. He swam right past here, out the door while she was still in the seat and he never saw her because of the air bubbles.
The plane floated, tail in the air for maybe five minutes and they were in the water 15 minutes before the Coast Guard rescued them.
The reason for the short duration of their swim was that they were given a bad winds forecast from the FAA weather briefer, later proven by the NTSB. By the time he realized the wouldn't make shore, he was too far out to turn around. They Controller scrambled the helicopter while they were still in the air and at one point they thought they would fly formation before running out of fuel.
We talked a length about his adventure and the ditching procedures included in my POH is influenced by his experience.
With the tip-up canopy on my RV-9 tail dragger, I will open the canopy but not jettison it. I will do my best to get the tailwheel in the water first and at stall speed. Those 10 MPH of lower stall speeds of the -9 will really help reduce the impact. Hitting the water, regardless of how slow will probably slam the nose down and flip the canopy forward, pulling out the hydraulic lift struts. If the canopy closes again, once the water pressure equalizes, I will simply push it open and exit the airplane.
Keep in mind, if the canopy is unlatched and the plane slews sideways, there is a chance the canopy frame could hit myself or my passenger.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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12-27-2014, 10:35 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: US
Posts: 2,251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR
The reason for the short duration of their swim was that they were given a bad winds forecast from the FAA weather briefer, later proven by the NTSB. By the time he realized the wouldn't make shore, he was too far out to turn around.
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Hmmmm...must have been a seriously wrong forecast. Isn't the closest Point of Entry only something like 60 miles from the Florida coast?
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