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RV-4 dust award

Jstov

Well Known Member
I just purchased my first rv-4. It has been sitting in a hangar for ten years. The gentelman I purchased it from flew it here was going to repaint it and fix a few things on it. Unfortunately he had a botched eye surgery shortly after he started working on it and stopped flying. He was an ATP guy flying for delta so he lost his job at the same time. Anyway if I can figure out how to post pictures here I am submitting this plane for the all time most dust collected award. My plans are to go over the entire airframe with a fine tooth comb, rebuild engine, repaint, update panel and fix a few things that need prettying up. I am sure I will have many more questions so I am thanking everyone in advance. Let me know what you guys think and if I have won the award!
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At home in it's new hangar, luckily all I had to do was push it 100 yards!!
 
More dust than I've seen on any RV, so I vote you win.

Meanwhile, good to see an RV-4 still retains its great lines even beneath all that dust.

Paint scheme looks like it may be a nice one as well.

Congrats on the acquisition.
 
That's a great barn find. How cool is that? You only had to push it into its new home. That should be a really easy rebuild. If you are allowed to strip and paint at the airport you won't even have to remove the wings.
Our kit serial numbers are one # apart. (930 & 931)
 
RV-4 "Dusty"

I vote, you win..... If your buddies read this, your new call sign really has to be "Dusty"

Clean it up and I think you might have a really nice paint scheme
 
I had not even thought of that, good idea everyone. It killed me to push it into my hangar with all that dust on it, but I had to get to my sons basketball practice. Worst thing is I am away for the weekend so it is going to have to spend a few more days in it's protective dust!!
 
I say:
Scratch the big plans, inspect it carefully, fix what needs fixin' and GET FLYING!
Let 'Dusty' talk to you for a year before you start changing very much.
That year will provide you with much needed flight time.
That year of flight time will reveal the kind of mods you really would like, and push aside the impractical and expensive ones.
Good choice in aircraft!
My T-18 sat a mere 9 years before I bought it. It was similarly dusty, about 1 year less dust. It needed a complete inspection of the fuel system (9 year old mogas) and some fuel system parts. The rest of the plane was in surprising good condition. I changed the tires & tubes to be safe.
PS; Join an RV oriented EAA chapter, you will get the guidance you need, and maybe start aerobatics and/or formation flying.
 
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The gentelman I purchased it from flew it here was going to repaint it and fix a few things on it. Unfortunately he had a botched eye surgery shortly after he started working on it and stopped flying. He was an ATP guy flying for delta so he lost his job at the same time.

And that right there is why I will continue to just wear glasses thank you very much.

Great "barn find". Best of luck with it. Should be fun.
 
I do have some decisions to make. I will probably do a full inspection, fix a few things, rebuild engine and go fly. I am lucky the airport I am at is a very active home building environment. There is multiple rv builders there including one 4 builder. I have never built a plane but my father has a Jabiru powered Sonex and I also have a J-3. I do all the work on both the planes and in return get full access to the Sonex. I am used to light controlled aircraft and already have the formation/aerobatics bug!
 
Off to the races...

I do have some decisions to make. I will probably do a full inspection, fix a few things, rebuild engine and go fly. I am lucky the airport I am at is a very active home building environment. There is multiple rv builders there including one 4 builder. I have never built a plane but my father has a Jabiru powered Sonex and I also have a J-3. I do all the work on both the planes and in return get full access to the Sonex. I am used to light controlled aircraft and already have the formation/aerobatics bug!
J,
First, congrats!
I was bitten by the RV4 bug with a perusal of a Kitplanes magazine in our F16 Squadron Intel vault in 1988. Bought a tail kit on faith, never having even seen an actual RV4. 26 years later and three RV types back I have learned a couple of things. Here is some advice from the cheap seats:

1. Buy a set of plans if you haven't already: https://www.vansaircraft.com/public/manuals.htm

2. Draft a operators manual as well, here's a good sample from Dayton: http://www.vansairforce.net/poh/rv4_dayton.pdf

3. Have an experienced RV IA help you with the C.I.

Questions? :)

V/R
Smokey
[email protected]
 
Great find! I am forever amazed at how long some people will pay monthly hangar rent while their bird collects dust!
 
Thanks smokey great advice. I have already ordered the plans hopefully they will come in this week. I looked at that operators manual, great example and very well thought out. I think Piper and Cessna should also look at it they might learn something. The guys around the airport are great and a good buddy of mine is a very thorough a&p so I shall be taking his advice on most things. I think I am going to pretty much start over and treat this plane like a fresh build. I am not going to be in a a hurry to get it flying as I have two other planes to fly. It needs rewiring for sure, builder used all automotive wire in it so that is a no go in my book. Smokey I heard you are in central Fla. I am at X59 Valkaria on east coast. If you are ever over this way let me know.
I can't imagine how much he has lost over the years paying hangar but it is substantial!
I am going to the airport early tomorrow to give her a wash and start on my plan of action. I will take some more photos once the 10 lbs of dust ballast is removed!
 
Dusty

Wow! I love stories like this! My 6 also was a 'barn find rebuild" after sitting for years! Looking foward to seeing the process. Please pay close attention to the fuel system as it probabaly has sloshed tanks. I would take the whole system apart including all the hard lines and selector to check for proper flares and restrictions. My 6 had slosh pieces wrapped around the pick-up tube inlets and some in the selector :eek:
 
"Dusty"

Great advice.
Resist the temptation to fix or upgrade everything. Only fix things that are broken or truly NFG.
Otherwise, you will pay to fix them more than once.
Wash it, inspect it, FLY THE **** out of it, then upgrade.
The paint looks good, yet I understand it is not yours until you make it so.

I've almost hit the 100 hr mark on my "Dream Flyer".
She is mine now.

Dues paid through June.

Daddyman
 
Very nice! I wish my luck were so good as to find something like that and be able to push her home! Congrats!

Post some more pics when you have the time. I would love to see the specs, avionics, and engine information :D
 
I say:
Scratch the big plans, inspect it carefully, fix what needs fixin' and GET FLYING!
Let 'Dusty' talk to you for a year before you start changing very much.
That year will provide you with much needed flight time.
That year of flight time will reveal the kind of mods you really would like, and push aside the impractical and expensive ones.
Good choice in aircraft!
My T-18 sat a mere 9 years before I bought it. It was similarly dusty, about 1 year less dust. It needed a complete inspection of the fuel system (9 year old mogas) and some fuel system parts. The rest of the plane was in surprising good condition. I changed the tires & tubes to be safe.
PS; Join an RV oriented EAA chapter, you will get the guidance you need, and maybe start aerobatics and/or formation flying.

Plus one on the advice given above!
Patrick
 
I inspected the tanks before I purchased it and luckily enough they had not been sloshed. There is a entry in the log that states, "left tank leaking a bit needs to be sloshed" but obviously it never was. I am not sure if he fixed leak or tanks were replaced after that entry. Tanks have a little fuel in it and show no signs of leaking.
As far as rebuilding it I want to do a through inspection. It looks like the overall construction was good but when it came time to do final touches he just did it and did not care how it looked. I also have noticed the hardware used on control rods are not accepted practices. I think this is mainly from work/repairs since it was built. I can envision scenarios where a castle nut was replaced with lock nuts over the years here and there etc. etc.. Before I get in and fly I want to make sure everything is how it is supposed to be. The engine, o-320, definitely needs a rebuild. It has 1300 smoh and after sitting for ten years it will need a lot of attention.
I did make it over to the airport this morning to do some work. I planned on washing it but it was raining, so instead I started dismantling stuff. I will post some more pics soon.
 
One thing I forgot to mention. The gentelman I bought it from did one of the biggest no no's in my book. He was replacing the plugs ten years ago and intended to come back and finish the job, he never did. He left the plugs out of the engine for all this time. He did have a towel over the engine. I don't know about you guys but I don't like leaving plugs out for five minutes let alone ten years! I learned that lesson years ago. I was working in a Jabiru we had a jug off. A guy at the airport deceived to air taxi his helicopter right down in front off all the hangars. Luckily I had just sealed the engine but the thought of what if taught me never assume it is going to be fine.
 
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The engine, o-320, definitely needs a rebuild. It has 1300 smoh and after sitting for ten years it will need a lot of attention.

Get everything cleaned up, change oil, clean/check the screen, put in fresh plugs and fire it up. Don't be surprised when it has good compression after running for a bit. 1300 hrs is nuthin' for these engines (mine has that :) ). Use a borescope to confirm you have good cylinders. The bottom end of the O-320 is nearly indestructible if the cam/lifters are good.

As others have advised, no need to jump into an overhaul unless the engine demands it. No need in bothering a good engine. Enjoy your new plane!
 
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Get everything cleaned up, change oil, clean/check the screen, put in fresh plugs and fire it up. Don't be surprised when it has good compression after running for a bit. 1300 hrs is nuthin' for these engines (mine has that :) ). Use a borescope to confirm you have good cylinders. The bottom end of the O-320 is nearly indestructible if the cam/lifters are good.

As others have advised, no need to jump into an overhaul unless the engine demands it. No need in bothering a good engine. Enjoy your new plane!
Second on Sam's point. Many moons ago, I pulled a -320 off a dusty old Starduster One in a dirt floor hangar that had been sitting unrun for at least 3-4 years in Houston humidity. My old mentor said, "check it out, clean it up, and run it." I insisted on overhaul. During the process, I found essentially nothing wrong with it. It can happen!
 
Engine

We thought the engine was good on our -4 that set for several years. Good compressions, good oil pressure, clean oil, and both mags perfect. Come to find out all the accessory gears were corrosion pitted beyond repair, the same on all the cam lobes. All the lifters and one exhaust valve guide was rejected. So we went from a "good" engine that we almost put in the air to one that was junk and needs a complete overhaul. One that has not run in over ten years needs a serious look over. At least pull a jug and take a look at the cam and lifters.
 
We thought the engine was good on our -4 that set for several years. Good compressions, good oil pressure, clean oil, and both mags perfect. Come to find out all the accessory gears were corrosion pitted beyond repair, the same on all the cam lobes. All the lifters and one exhaust valve guide was rejected. So we went from a "good" engine that we almost put in the air to one that was junk and needs a complete overhaul. One that has not run in over ten years needs a serious look over. At least pull a jug and take a look at the cam and lifters.
Inspecting the gears though the accy housing openings is pretty easy & quick, too.
 
I am going to do a full inspection on the motor. Don't you guys think not having plugs in it for ten years warrants a rebuild? It was flying when he parked it. There will always be that question in the back of my mind if I don't though.
 
Don't you guys think not having plugs in it for ten years warrants a rebuild? It was flying when he parked it.

Emphatically 'no', I think you are getting ahead of yourself.

If you are concerned that trash found its way into the open spark plug holes just flush out the combustion chambers with some kerosene followed with a shot of fresh oil. A borescope will reveal any corrosion.

As has been stated earlier, pulling one cylinder will allow a peek at the cam and lifters and give a qualified observer an idea of whether corrosion has occurred or not. If corrosion is found then you are looking at engine work

But don't jump to the conclusion at this point that the engine is bad just because the plugs were removed and it hasn't been flying. :)
 
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I agree with LowPass regarding inspecting the engine first. Here is a picture of one cylinder from my O-290 after I brought it home in 2005. It was overhauled in 1959 and had bounced around unused since then.

I did replace all the rubber gaskets, intake tube seals, etc before the first flight but that was it.


(Click to enlarge)

PS. For your double post, hit the "Edit" button and then click on "Delete".
 
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Yes it was removed and there is one with it. I can't believe how good that cylinder looks after all that time. My only concern is that the hangar is a mile from a salt water lagoon and our very moist humid environment.
 
Yes it was removed and there is one with it. I can't believe how good that cylinder looks after all that time. My only concern is that the hangar is a mile from a salt water lagoon and our very moist humid environment.

That engine was stored in the guy's garage down in Baton Rouge, LA. You might be OK. Find someone to show you how to pull a jug and inspect it.

Go a head and buy the Overhaul Gasket kit for your engine. Then you will have everything you will need to put it back together regardless of what is found. (I think you might have to buy the intake runner to sump hoses separately, I don't recall.)
 
Here is how dusty looks now! I am going to strip the paint, any suggestions? I am looking for info as far as the process goes. Should I strip then immediately aluma prep then alodine. Let me know what process you guys think would work the best.
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Wow, you are going all out with this rehab thing:D

Gonna have something you can be proud of, and have faith in when you are done.

Thanks for the postings, keep them coming as you progress.
 
Chemical strippers, the type suitable for aluminum, is the most common. Use a phenolic scraper so you don't scratch the surface. Big mess.
Soda blasting is my favorite. It works amazingly well. However, the equipment is expensive, a bit finicky, generates a lot of heavy spent soda, and a lot of dust. If you can find a local soda blast company that has a booth, I would check it out.
You should not need to etch or convert the metal again. It should take primer after stripping but you will have to clean the parts suitably. Follow the instructions for the chemical stripper. Soda requires a very diluted wash of vinegar, then soap and water or Kleen strip prep all or other normal paint prep cleaner.
Your making great progress. Fun times.
 
I hope it looks like what yours does now soon! There are so many little detail things that the original builder did that makes it look not well built. For instance the hole for the flaps pushrods is just a jagged hole cut out with no care. There are a few structural issues but nothing that isn't repairable.
 
This plane needs to be taken apart, a full inspection and rebuild is warranted. It amazed me how easy it came apart. I am certain it won't go back together as easy!!!
 
Engine mount weldments

It's hard to see from the picture, but it appears the engine mount weldments have already been replaced.
 
Arlie you are correct but the guy didn't even bother to paint them. That is the kind of stuff I am dealing with. There was no care in detail, he just wanted to get it done and go flying.
 
How would you guys prepare the surfaces for paint. I plan on stripping it first but I'm not sure what I should do after it is stripped. Should I aluma prep it then alodine it then prime it? If so how do you alodine a whole fuselage or wing? Is there other ways of protecting it? I live in a very moist salt water environment so anti-corrosion is very important. I am also toying with the idea of wrapping it so a paint primer might not be necessary. Thanks for any advice.
 
Depends...

How would you guys prepare the surfaces for paint. I plan on stripping it first but I'm not sure what I should do after it is stripped. Should I aluma prep it then alodine it then prime it? If so how do you alodine a whole fuselage or wing? Is there other ways of protecting it? I live in a very moist salt water environment so anti-corrosion is very important. I am also toying with the idea of wrapping it so a paint primer might not be necessary. Thanks for any advice.

Jay,
I prepped and painted my RV4 back in the 90's for a life in the SE USA "corrosion belt". I primed the inside with Zinc Chromate and the outside with PPG products. It paid off as 20 years later the paint looks new and the current owner reports no corrosion.
Since your airplane was painted once, the surface was hopefully prepped by etching and alodine. Etching is normally accomplished by scrubbing the surfaces with Phosphoric acid diluted in water and scotch-brite pads. Alodine solution chemically reacts with the aluminum and one type actually changes the metal to a gold color. I used clear. Once completed you are ready for paint.

Since I painted mine way back in the day, several very good "self etching primers" have come on the market and have good reviews. My advice would be to buy a good primer, clean the surface well and apply the primer followed by a single color of a single or two stage poly paint. Apply your trim with vinyl as it's easier and lighter.

Questions? [email protected]

V/R
Smokey
 
Update

Well it has been a long time sine I have updated this thread but work has continued. I have replaced both rear spars on the wings due to a misdrilled hole in the wing spar/carry through attach point. Lower firewall has been replaced and I installed the angle reinforcements like the rv-8 to beef it up even more. I have rebuilt the left and right elevators because the OB had bad warps in them and they did not line up. I also found that the ailerons had been misdrilled on the hinges so I still need to rebuild those. The engine has been torn apart and overall does not look bad internally so hopefully I will win on that one once I start sending the parts out. All the parts have been stripped and only have the right wing and a few small pieces to prime. I ended up using a two part epoxy zinc chromate that I am very happy with. That stuff is tough as nails. Right wing need to be stripped and primed and ailerons built and I might be putting parts back together soon. Basically there will not be a part on this airplane that has not been inspected for plans conformity and correct construction. I am rapidly approaching the 90% done 90% left to go stage!
 
Wow...

Sounds like you are doing great work. Keep it up and show us your progress when you come up for air.

Cheers,
Balls
 
Kudos

Justin. Im just now discovering your thread. Wonderful story and you are doing a great job. Just want to encourage you to continue on and wish you the very best.

You're going to LOVE it when she's flying.

Cheers,
 
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