cost of overhauled engines

[prkaye]

If one is going to buy a Lyc for an RV, I am aware of 5 options:

1) buy a new Lyc through Van's OEM pricing
2) buy an experimental Lyc "clone" from somewhere like Penn Yan, or Aerosport
3) buy an overhauled engine from an overhaul shop
4) buy a used engine with some time left before overhaul
5) buy a run-out engine and overhaul it (or have it overhauled).

I'd like to see some opinions of the real cost differences between these options. Clearly a new engine costs more than a used engine, but if a used engine needs to be overhauled in 1000 hours (instead of 2000hrs for a new engine) you have to account for that in the cost. Buying a used engine may also have some increased risk. As for overhauling an engine, I've heard that even if you do the work yourself, it still costs in the neighbourhood of $10K for parts.

What about option (4)? How much does one typically pay for a used engine that has just been overhauled by a professional "overhaul shop"? Where are these shops? Does this come out to be significantly cheaper in the long-run than buying a new experimental engine?

My general philosophy as a consumer is that there is never a "free lunch", and that buying a used engine probably doesn't really save much in the long-run (when you factor decreased service life of the engine)... am I quite wrong on this?

[frankh]

There is the three year warranty some of the clone manufacturers are putting on new clone engines.

Purely from some of the horror stories I have read it will cost about $18k for an overhauld but a new clone with FI and C/S will be about 21.5k. For me that made the decision easy.

I see no benefit in buying a new "genuine" Lycoming...Same parts more money as the clones and the clones are arguably better.

FWIW

Frank
7a Mattituck IO360

[SteinAir]

Well, I'm right in the middle of that at the moment and was faced with the same exact dillema. So, the route I chose to go was:

Buy a used/core (for $5K). I lucked out and after some searching found a pretty good 360 wide deck core with 500SNEW on it, already setup for C/S and including accessories. Take some searching but can be done.

Bought 4 brand new cylinder (currently go for about $850-895 on the open market): $3580

Have the crank polished (needed nothing else), cam polished (needed nothing else) and the case mag'd/yellow tagged: $750.00 +/-

Have the Rods/Rocker Arms rebushed & balanced:$200 +/-

New Bearings, Seals, etc..: $350+/-

So now add in a few accessories (like a little alternator, etc..) and everything else I'll now literally have a new engine for about $10-$12K.

I don't know how you could spend $10K on parts alone, unless you have to replace a crank or something - which if you're carefull with finding a good core should't be a problem!

Sure there are those who say you can buy a new one for $22K, but think about it...that extra $10-$12K either completely pays for a prop, or buys a lot of other toys. Or, you can spend some of that money on performance upgrades such as a nice port/polish job on the cylinders, a custom cam profile/grind, static & dynamic balancing of the mass roatating parts, etc...(which is what I've chosen to do with some of the money). Mine will be new too and every bit as good as a clone....with a few performance upgrades along with way!

I wish more people wouldn't just dismiss the "overhauling it yourself" theory just becaus they "heard" someone else spent $18K on an overhaul. Those stories are 99% from certified guys who had to buy certified stuff and pay a certified shop to overhaul the engine. There is NO REASON is should cost you anywhere close to that to do it yourself. Heck, if you went with overhauled cyl's, you could save another couple/few grand and probably come in under $10 for a darned good and perfectly fine engine. It's not hard to do, nor time consuming. It took me last weekend a total of 4 hrs to completely dissasemble the engine down to the split case, and an hour later the crank/cam/rods were in a box packed and ready to be shipped (the engine was flying on a plane 2 weeks prior)!

Anyway, I just want to re-iterate that the factory new and clones are a great solution. But, for those of us that are either cash flow poor, or just want to save a few pennies there is no good reason not to save yourself $10K (or spend it on a nicer prop, interior, avionics, etc..) over a new one. Mattituck, Aerosport, Barret, ECI, Superior, et.al do phenemenal work and are a great value, but don't discount doing it the other way. Due to all the clones on the market, it's really driven down the price of cores...you shouldn't have to pay more than $5K for a pretty good one if you do some looking.

Just my 2 cents as usual....I've done a number of these and every time I enjoy looking for other ways to spend that $10K I've saved!

Cheers,
Stein.

[prkaye]

StenAir, thanks for those figures. If I can really save $10K, that's a VERY stron incentive to go that route! I assume you have some expertise with engines though... what about for a guy like me who has never done more than an oil change on his own car??

By the way, what does the "core" consist of? If you get a "core", what else do you need to complete the engine?

[hydroguy2]

Originally Posted by prkaye

... what about for a guy like me who has never done more than an oil change on his own car??

I have a RV-6 friend who rebuild an O-320 himself. He has roughly $6000 in the overhaul(including core). He is a retired school teacher, but figured I built the plane, I can build the engine too. (He had help from an A&P).

[cytoxin]

i had and 0 320 with conical mounts @1550 tt from a crop duster and james, ken and patty and others (A&ps) urged me to get a different engine due to the conical mounts,150 hp, and the o/h cost.. i would have had to pay 5 for the core. it had sat for 20+ years. so i got the superior. Under stand the 0 320 was a narrow deck without any a/d compliance. ,mags carb and other parts looked very poor.

[mahlon_r]

Below is a parts list for an O-320 that I would use for a minimum overhaul. I used an actual overhaul to generate the list and deleted parts that I thought were out of the ordinary and only necessary less then 50% of the time. This list is at list price. I would expect to pay approximately 25-30 percent less, for the parts depending on where you get them. Maybe a bit more than that discount, is also possible too.
This engine didn't need an updated crank gear or oil pump impellers, both of which are required by AD note, if they haven't been updated already. Needing both would add about 650.00 to the parts cost. Also didn't need a crankshaft grind either and the ID of the crank passed SB 505 which is also an AD.
It also assumes that no gears are worn and need to be replaced. Gears are very expensive and can change the price of the parts very quickly.
It also does not include the purchase price of the core engine.
Sorry about the formatting, I hope it comes out readable for you.
Good Luck,
Mahlon
"The opinions and information provided in this and all of my posts are hopefully helpful to you. Please use the information provided responsibly and at you own risk."


Material : Quantity List Ext List

LYK 05K21100 Cylinder Assy 4 1,046.504 186.00
LYC 72566 Gear - Starter Ring 1 154.09 154.09
ECI CASE-1 Ovh Crankcase yl 1 1,377.001,377.00
MGS D2JWD Gasket Set O-320-D2J WD 1 150 150
LYC 78027 Bolt - Connecting Rod 8 31.36 250.88
LYC LW-12186 Nut - Connecting Rod Bolt 8 3.84 30.72
LYC 18M19388 Bearing - Connecting Rod 8 18.18 145.44
LYC 18D19394 Bearing - Crankshaft 4 30.45 121.8
LYC 18A19441 Bearing - CS Front Main 2 155.45 310.9
LYC STD-1211 Plug - Expansion 2.00 dia 1 2.22 2.22
LYC STD-2246 Bolt .3125-24 X 1.00 Long 1 15.09 15.09
LYC 05K22720 Kit - 4 Cyl Cam & Tappet 1 1,636.35 1,636.35
LYC LW-12892 Button - Rocker Shaft 8 3.82 30.56
LSL 69603 Hose 1.75id 2.188od (3) 4 4.64 18.56
LSL STD-2180 Hose .38idX1.81 Long (8) 4 2.91 11.64
LYC 1028-B Ball - Check .6875 dia 1 3.15 3.15
LYC 61084 Spring - Oil Press. Relief 1 6.64 6.64
CSP CH48110- Oil Filter 1 27.48 27.48
LYC 53E22144 Valve Asm - Temp Control 1 299.91 299.91
SEI K-4527-3 Ign. Kit & UREM38E Plugs 1 1,850.00 1,850.00
PCU 10-5217R Reman Carb MA-4SPA 1 1,241.65 1,241.65
SKY 149-NL Lt Wt Starter 1 500 500
LYC 72569 Baffle Asm - Intercylinder 2 44.55 89.1
LYC LW-14798 Gage Asm - Oil Level 1 126.77 126.77
LYC 74637 Bushing - Rocker Valve 8 4.27 34.16
LYC LW-13923 Bushing - Connecting Rod 4 2.93 11.72
MEH QTS Oil, Mineral 8 1.4 11.2
MEH MISC Off Inventory Hardware 1 100 100
Total 12,743.03

Crank gear mod if necessary: 150.00
Oil pump impellers if necessary: around 400.00 at lsit

[az_gila]

Originally Posted by prkaye

If one is going to buy a Lyc for an RV, I am aware of 5 options:

1) buy a new Lyc through Van's OEM pricing
2) buy an experimental Lyc "clone" from somewhere like Penn Yan, or Aerosport
3) buy an overhauled engine from an overhaul shop
4) buy a used engine with some time left before overhaul
5) buy a run-out engine and overhaul it (or have it overhauled).

Don't forget number 6..

6) Buy and ECI engine kit of parts and assemble it yourself....

I'm leaning to this to get 180 HP...

Anyone want to buy an O-320-E2G first run core - stored well in a dry part of the country for 10 years - dynafocal and wide deck? I also have the replacement sump and intake tubes needed for a nosewheel installation available....

gil in Tucson

[prkaye]

Again... what is a "core" ? Forgive my ignorance of the terminology...what does the core not include?

[cytoxin]

Originally Posted by az_gila

Don't forget number 6..

6) Buy and ECI engine kit of parts and assemble it yourself....

I'm leaning to this to get 180 HP...

Anyone want to buy an O-320-E2G first run core - stored well in a dry part of the country for 10 years - dynafocal and wide deck? I also have the replacement sump and intake tubes needed for a nosewheel installation available....

gil in Tucson

now you tell me