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  #1  
Old 12-01-2014, 05:13 PM
ijustwannafly's Avatar
ijustwannafly ijustwannafly is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 248
Default Rookie problem Pneumatic Squeezer mushing rivets

I apologize if this is not posted in the correct place. As the title indicates im having some issues with my squeezer or possibly operator error??

I have the Isham tool kit and im just practicing away over here with various things as I start my 7 emp kit

Originally I thought the bucking was going to be the hard part. Turns out it is the only thing I can do with out messing things up.

It seems my Pneumatic Squeezer is mushing rivets to the side or "cleating" them

At first I thought my adjustable set holder was bent. I ordered a new one and got the same mushed over results as my originally adjustable set holder. I tried the non adjustable version with shims and that still mushed shop heads over.
I have since tried different yokes, double checked material thickness and so on.
Originally I was practicing with two pieces of .020 and a 3-3
Someone told me that it was hard to get things right on that thin of material. Today I made a small practice piece with two sheets of .032 and did the math and came up with a 3-3.5 which seemed logical.

The results were pretty bad. I can buck rivets better then what I got out of my squeezer today. Does anyone have any suggestions on what im doing wrong?
You will also notice there is two pictures with me pushing on the rivet with a drill bit. I wanted to show in the pictures how much play there is in the hole after it is dimpled. Does this look normal? It had a good bit of movement in there. I of course double checked the correct bits and dies were used. Also just a side note, pay no attention to the really short rivet in one of the pictures. It was a length experiment










Last edited by ijustwannafly : 12-01-2014 at 05:17 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2014, 05:32 PM
Mike S's Avatar
Mike S Mike S is offline
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What I have found to work best for me is to make sure the fixed set is on the head of the rivet, and the moving set is on the tail.

I hold the body of the tool so as to apply pressure on the rivet head, keeping the head in place in the dimple, prior to squeezing the rivet. This also helps me to keep the tool normal to the alum sheet.

If you have too deep a dimple or countersink, and the rivet head is lower than the surface, it is gonna wobble no matter how much you hold the fixed set against the work.

I do this with either the manual squeezer or the pneumatic one, no difference.
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2014, 05:51 PM
BillL BillL is online now
 
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Location: Central IL
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I have checked my pneumatic squeezer as well. I take a rivet, sit the factory head on the ram die. Then slowly advance the ram to begin to squeeze it. You can watch it with magnifiers if needed to see the detail of the process. If it is square, then you need practice. It is very easy to misalign the heavy squeezer. I have to take care to center both sides to ensure a squarely set shop head.

If the rivet only process fails to produce a concentric rivet. Then you need to investigate the sets for profile. Just methodically chase down the possible causes.

Good luck, and congratulations on recognizing a need to improve.

Having said all this, a 4" reach, no hole yoke WILL deflect and open some yielding a slight angle on the shop head along it's (yoke) major axis.
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  #4  
Old 12-01-2014, 05:55 PM
alpinelakespilot2000 alpinelakespilot2000 is online now
 
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Check rivet length. It looks like you might have too long of a rivet in your first pic and rivets that are too long will almost always cleat. Related, don't automatically trust Van's drawings regarding rivet size. From my experience, sometimes a longer or shorter rivet is needed than what is shown in the call outs. Finally, a $12.00 rivet cutter also comes in handy for when the right size is between sizes.

Good luck, and hang in there. You'll get it figured out.
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  #5  
Old 12-01-2014, 05:57 PM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
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Default Squeezing rivets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike S View Post
What I have found to work best for me is to make sure the fixed set is on the head of the rivet, and the moving set is on the tail.

I hold the body of the tool so as to apply pressure on the rivet head, keeping the head in place in the dimple, prior to squeezing the rivet. This also helps me to keep the tool normal to the alum sheet.

If you have too deep a dimple or countersink, and the rivet head is lower than the surface, it is gonna wobble no matter how much you hold the fixed set against the work.

I do this with either the manual squeezer or the pneumatic one, no difference.
+1 What Mike said.
You're over thinking. The rivet normally has some slack in the dimpled hole. There's not much you can do short of using a bit one size smaller to match drill like #41 but any smaller and the dimple die won't go in the hole. The dimple stretches the hole. A #40 reamer will help as the hole is perfectly round and the exact size. The rivets look like the set is slightly off perpendicular when it hits. Assuming the set is perpendicular, it could be the rivet moving at impact. Try feathering the trigger so it goes up slowly and barely touches first then squeeze. I wouldn't call them clinched. A little maybe but I'll bet if you used a close up like that on every RV there would be quite a few similar. Build on Robert.
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  #6  
Old 12-02-2014, 07:24 AM
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RV7Ron RV7Ron is offline
 
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Bobby, dont feel bad, valid question...most of us have been there. I remember posting in my blog early on that I was amazed that I could screw up a rivet with a pneumatic squeezer...it should be automatic, shouldnt it? Well its not, I had the same issue as you...it was just a matter of not getting the tool normal to the work, and keeping it there throughout the stroke. Just practice...you'll get it. Also, as was mentioned...the "play" in the hole is perfectly normal...the rivet will fill the hole when set, by design. Lastly, those rivets dont look that bad...and certainly structurally sound IMHO.

Are you having fun yet?! We should set up a time for me to visit your project. Remember, learning is half the fun...and this path of discovery will continue all the way until first flight.
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  #7  
Old 12-02-2014, 07:44 AM
Debovsky Debovsky is offline
 
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Location: Val-d'Or (Quebec), CANADA
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Default Possibly an oversized hole??

Apparently you seem to have this issues no matter the tool you're using right?
If so, let's have a look at a possible cause that could have a common point; the hole size. You need to be very careful with this.

You may have drilled out the correct size to begin with but things could turn bad when you deburr the hole prior to dimpling. It is very easy to "oversize" the hole in thin aluminum sheet (0.025 to 0.016). Once the hole is dimpled, you end up with an oversize hole, guaranteed. This in turn will make the rivet look as it is too long and you'll end up with a cleated rivet.

Just try a few more but this time with very little deburring force or simply try on a thicker piece and check the difference.
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  #8  
Old 12-02-2014, 08:56 AM
Captain Avgas Captain Avgas is offline
 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Default Take control

Here are a couple of tips to get you using your pneumatic squeezer like a pro.


1. Take full control of the squeezer. Hold it firmly with 2 hands. Many builders think that because the pneumatic squeezer does all the work, they can flick the trigger and let it do its thing....wrong!. You need to hold the squeezer firmly and take control of it. This is particularly important if your rivet is a bit on the long side. If the squeezer wants to roll over and clinch the tail of the rivet....just don't let it do it!

2. Practice using the squeezer in two operations rather than one. Practice teasing the trigger so that you can close both sets (head and tail sets) onto the rivet without actually squeezing it (you're just letting air escape from the cylinder as you do this). Then you can truly feel that you have perfect alignment between the tool sets and the rivet head and tail before you fully activate the trigger and squeeze the rivet. Once again it's a matter of taking control of the squeezer....getting it to do what YOU want it to do...not what IT wants to do.

Honestly the biggest problem I see that builders have with their pneumatic squeezers stems simply from the fact that they just don't have the tool under full control. They hold the squeezer limply, put one set on the rivet, flick the trigger...and just go bang.

In reality, taking control of the squeezer is much more important than whether you put the fixed set or the moving set on the head of the rivet. At any rate you need to be proficient at doing it both ways because in many cases access will be limited by the bulk of the squeezer body.
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  #9  
Old 12-02-2014, 09:00 AM
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Guy Prevost Guy Prevost is offline
 
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I noticed during my build that a deep reach, or a no hole yoke is more likely to do that, due to reduced stiffness. I use a normal depth yoke whenever possible.
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  #10  
Old 12-02-2014, 10:00 AM
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Default Keep on pluggin..

..per our phone call last night. Like Ron said, you'll get the hang of it. It's good that you are striving for perfection. In my opinion, that's the end of the spectrum one should start from, but don't let it bum you out.
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