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  #1  
Old 10-29-2014, 01:12 PM
PerfTech's Avatar
PerfTech PerfTech is offline
 
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Default ASA Vacuum System Concerns

... We fully understand the concerns of RV owners from reading the thread on this recent incident resulting in a forced landing, due to a clogged breather. This occurrence and one other on an RV-10 are the only ones we were made aware of ( even one is too many). The only models displaying serious coking potential have been the 10s and we suspended sales of the evacuation system to the 10s until we can be assured the problem no longer exists. We must add that several RV-10s have the system installed and are having no issues whatsoever. We are currently trying to sort out why and what is different. We sent out a service bulletin to everyone and also addressed this at length on the forums as a safety precaution (it now appears many were unaware and failed to receive it). We strongly advised everyone to inspect the tube into the exhaust at every oil change to be certain it is open and free of any serious clogging. A small amount, 1/16" or so is normal and not an issue. We also changed the design of the saddle clamp to further help eliminate the potential problem. Karl, the owner of the RV-8 with the forced landing has had this system installed for months and stated this; "The fitting has been installed for 24 months and has never been internally inspected". He didn't even inspect it at annual inspection or the problem would have been alleviated. We advise inspection at every oil change and if any significant build-up is detected to inspect more often than that. If significant build-up is detected then a second valve to vent off crankcase pressure should be installed. We have the parts for this in stock should you need them. This forced landing should not have happened and it appears the real problem is in the fact that we failed to get everyone adequately informed as to maintenance of the system. I have contacted him to supply what ever he needs to make him comfortable with his installation and we are thankful he is OK and no serious damages occurred. We have offered and supplied to experimental aircraft, this product with oil separators for over thirty years with sales of many thousands of units. To our knowledge there have been just these two incidents. We are working on a service bulletin to put on our website addressing these concerns with maintenance instructions Etc. If you have a question, concern or a good suggestion you would like to discuss, please give us a call. Thanks, Allan
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AntiSplatAero.com
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Last edited by PerfTech : 10-29-2014 at 01:14 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-29-2014, 09:44 PM
DeltaRomeo DeltaRomeo is offline
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Default S/B on ASA website?

Allan,

Is there a service bulletin area on your website? I looked and couldn’t find a S/B section. If there is, and I missed it, can you provide the URL?

Van’s, as an example, is at: www.vansaircraft.com/public/service.htm

v/r,
dr

[ed. 10/30 update. I see you edited your post above to say you're working on a S/B for your website. Thank you for the update. dr]
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Last edited by DeltaRomeo : 10-30-2014 at 06:48 AM. Reason: Added URL to website
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  #3  
Old 10-30-2014, 09:53 AM
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PerfTech PerfTech is offline
 
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Default Coming Monday!

... My computer guy will be in on Monday and we will have that feature. We make souch quality products that until now it wasen't needed. Thanks, Allan
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  #4  
Old 10-30-2014, 03:38 PM
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scrollF4 scrollF4 is offline
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Default

Allan,
Thanks for getting onto this. I agree that you put out high quality products. However, as you turn your attention to the quality of your information processes, here are two data points:
1) I never received the SB notification that you said you sent out.
2) reviewing the paperwork that came with my breather/vacuum valve kit, I see no maintenance direction to check for coking or to clean it at all, or any sort of maintenance instruction. Likewise for the separator. If such direction exists, it didn't make it into my shipping box.
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  #5  
Old 10-30-2014, 03:59 PM
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Dbro172 Dbro172 is offline
 
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Default Question?

Allan,

What if I want to remove the vacuum portion only of my air oil separator and leave the separator in tact. Can I leave the setup the same and simply remove the hose from the valve and position it to drip on the exhaust pipe, add whistle vent, etc. per the Vans Stock plans setup.

Or in other words does the air oil separator setup work without the vacuum?
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  #6  
Old 10-30-2014, 08:04 PM
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PerfTech PerfTech is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbro172 View Post
Allan,

What if I want to remove the vacuum portion only of my air oil separator and leave the separator in tact. Can I leave the setup the same and simply remove the hose from the valve and position it to drip on the exhaust pipe, add whistle vent, etc. per the Vans Stock plans setup.

Or in other words does the air oil separator setup work without the vacuum?
Yes! It works great, but you will loose a few good things in that process. Thanks, Allan
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AntiSplatAero.com
Innovative Aircraft Safety
Products, Tools & Services
Info@AntiSplatAero.com
Southern California (KREI)
RV-9A / Edge-540
(909) 824-1020
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  #7  
Old 11-04-2014, 06:50 AM
DeltaRomeo DeltaRomeo is offline
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerfTech
....We are working on a service bulletin to put on our website addressing these concerns with maintenance instructions Etc....
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerfTech View Post
... My computer guy will be in on Monday and we will have that feature. ...snip
It's now Tuesday and I don't see the SB on your website.

dr
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Last edited by DeltaRomeo : 11-04-2014 at 06:52 AM.
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  #8  
Old 11-04-2014, 10:00 AM
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PerfTech PerfTech is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaRomeo View Post
It's now Tuesday and I don't see the SB on your website.

dr
... Sorry for the delay! Here is an advance copy of the "Service Bulletin" That should be on our website today. Thanks, Allan
.
SERVICE BULLETIN 000-1
Date Effective October 30, 2014
Subject Vacuum Saddle Mount Evacuation System Maintenance
Required Action Cleaning and Inspection of Bias Draw Tube
Time of Compliance Before Further Flight and at Each Subsequent Oil Change
Level of Certification Aircraft Owner
... A potential problem has been brought to our attention with two recent incidents resulting in a forced landing of an RV-8 due to a clogged, coked breather. This occurrence and one other on an RV-10 that had a front seal blow out are the only ones we were made aware of (even one is too many). The models displaying serious coking potential have been the 10s and we suspended sales of the evacuation system to the 10s until we can be assured the problem no longer exists. We must add that several RV-10s have the system installed and are having no issues whatsoever. We are currently trying to sort out why, and what is different. When a good working solution is found we will make it available to all via our website and the forums. We addressed this at length on the forums as a safety precaution (it appears many were unaware and failed to receive this information). A.S.A. markets this product too many different experimental models and applications. We strongly advise everyone, with all aircraft models to inspect the tube where it protrudes into the exhaust immediately, and at every oil change to be certain it is open and free of any serious clogging. Many owners have carried out this inspection to find a small amount of coking, 1/16" or so on the inside periphery is normal. This is not an issue and usually will not build further. We have also changed the design of the saddle mount clamp on to further help eliminate the potential problem. When we complete the testing program on this change we will report our results and make these available. We advise inspection at every oil change and if any significant build-up is detected, to inspect more often than that. If significant build-up is detected, then for safety a second valve to vent off crankcase pressure should be installed. We have the parts for this in stock should you need them. In light of recent developments, we will be offering the system complete with two valves and necessary hardware to install this bypass. We will also have a retrofit kit to add this safety feature on to existing installations. This forced landing would not have happened and it appears the root problem lies in the fact that we failed to get everyone adequately informed as to maintenance of this system.
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Last edited by PerfTech : 11-04-2014 at 10:18 AM.
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  #9  
Old 11-04-2014, 10:55 AM
meloosifah meloosifah is offline
 
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Wink

For the record - I have no skin in this game as I have never purchased any ASA products - but I have yet to see a single person chime in that they did, actually receive a notice of this issue. I have been following all of the threads on this topic for some time.

If there are any recipients of this letter I would love to hear from them.

I have to agree with a vigorous poster from another thread that this is a SERIOUS issue! If this problem is known to exist why would the relief valve not be standard installation and part of the kit. This feels like a case of blind leading the blind here...

It's interesting that the focus of the previous posts is MAINTENANCE yet there does not seem to be any mention of this requirement, even when made aware of the issues, on the website, installation instructions, etc...?

I think someone should be saying a prayer of thanks that no one is dead yet AND that builders are generally the type to take challenges as they come and simply move on - if not, I can only imagine the fun discussions that could be happening among the law-sharks.
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  #10  
Old 11-04-2014, 11:50 AM
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PerfTech PerfTech is offline
 
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Default

... As I said before, we began addressing this as soon a the first issue came up, and posted here to make others aware of a potential problem. Here is the link to that post from July of 2013.
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=101827
... We also paid a mailing service to send out our service bulletin to 5000 purchasers of this vacuum system. After recently being made aware that they had failed to perform and they kept our payment for services we will be taking legal action in this mater. All of this was done after only one incident out of thousands of units. I would be more than happy to compare our performance with this or any of our products. No other aircraft parts or kit manufacturers offer better quality, service or try harder to keep their customers happy. I am proud of our performance! Thanks, Allan..
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Southern California (KREI)
RV-9A / Edge-540
(909) 824-1020
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