To the previous 5 post, good info thanks!!!
I think may be LSA may have a chance if you guys where running it. Smart comments.
Of course you are RV'ers.
Now the bad news is the arbitrary top speed and weight limits and their effect on the engine of choice.
I see BIG EYES and greedy hearts of business or marketing guys who think they'll get rich selling Lite Sport Planes. Good to hear Jabiru and "Lightning" have their act together and price in line. $60k for a new flying plane is good but a kit? Ho-humm. Why not just build a RV. Oh yes you only have a Sport pilot license? As a CFI, I predict that SP v. PPL completion times will be different by ZERO to may be $1,500 at most. There is no reason why people can not get a PPL close to the min 40 hours. I think most PL students will take their check ride with over 40 hours. Again a medical is really a moot point. You can't fly "sick", period, nor should you want to or be able to, sport pilot or not.
Is this the "Lightning"?
http://www.arionaircraft.com/index.html
Reminds me of the
Pulsar that came out 1990
Is the lightning LSA qualified? They make notes: w/ VG's, no wheel pants, smaller engine w/ the wrong prop, ha ha, to make a 190 mph airplane go slow. Oh yes limit gross to 1320 lbs. "Yes sir Mr FAA, it only goes 138 mph."
This is what I mean! This is what the LSA class should be, without the artificial top speed limits. The other limits:
Max Weight limit (yes but more than 1320 lbs),
Min stall speed limit (check),
Number of Seats limit (check),
I'd even add engine HP, retract gear and prop limit (check),
BUT top speed makes no sense at all.
The Pulsar and Lightning (or even a 118hp RV-9) should be what the LSA spec should have been. What we have is a LSA spec that makes little underpowered, slow planes.
Its bizarreness having an arbitrary top speed limit? Dumb and repressive of innovation with no real gain in safety. Yes inexperienced pilots in a fast plane can get behind more easily. However I have a great idea! It is called the throttle. Pull it back and go slower. Think of it as "The rate of event control".
Will Sport Pilots be so inept that they can't handle 140 mph? Will their hair catch on fire? As I read it some Sport Pilots will be limited to 100 mph!
That's why LSA is kind of an odd deal. Technically limiting specs that don't add safety or increase ease of flying. Every fly a light vs. heavy plane in gusty winds? You can bust your back side in a LSA just as easy as any plane! Flying has risks. Light and going slow does not matter. If you hit the ground going 138 mph, it will hurt but not for long. I'm all for slow stall, that makes complete sense. Sure limit seats and weight, but 1320 lbs is just odd. Is that 600 kilograms, from Europe rules. Are we following the Europeans now?
The engine is not specified in the LSA requirements but the weight and speed does box it in. You can have an efficient airframe and low hp, or you can have a less efficient airframe and higher hp. In the first case you will have a DOG in climb. In the second case you have an inefficent airframe and greater gas burn.
It makes me wounder what RV'ers would do if the FAA limited RV weights to Van's specs!
THEY WOULD DIE! That would eliminate the Subaru and other alternative engines and overkill panels, two batteries and alternators, fancy paint jobs and interiors. I agree the Rotax is light, but the 1350# airplane weight limit is too low. It should be at least 1,500 or even 1,600 lbs. A light airframe can be strong, but where do you think they will save weight, the airframe may be? I would rather have 50 lbs more in the airframe for margin of safety and crash worthiness.
Oh well it does not really matter really. I don't find any of the LSA's class of planes particular attractive. They look odd, fly odd, have low performance and really cost as much to maintain, tax, hanger, insurance and fuel.
I can throttle my 180 hp RV back and fly at 138 mph and get better gas milage than most if not all LSA's. I suggest a RV-9 with a O235 flying at 138 mph is a safer, more comfortable and efficient than any LSA.
May be the 118 hp RV-9 should have been the boiler plate for a sport plane. That would be 1600 lbs gross, 167 mph cruise and 118 hp. Than I would say YES, this could be a nice class of planes.
LSA> boring, Yawn. Who really really cares about LSA's? Once you have flown a RV, why would you want a LSA? If you have PPL get a real Cub or C140 to go slow.
Trying to make new technology go slow is crazy, 138 mph!!!! Look Kitfox went out of business (two or three times and down for the count I believe for now). I suspect many of the current almost 40 LSA want-to-bees EAA is talking about will be gone in a few years. THERE IS SAID IT.
May be the "Lightning" will be around but it will not be the 138 mph LSA version. People don't want to go slow.
Did the LSA movement come from Europe? First we adopted terms like "aerodrome", METAR's (Mee-Tarrr)" and abbreviations like "FU", for fum?e (Foo-may), French for SMOKE. The French! Than we had ICAO airspace class A, B, C, D and E shoved at us. I was just getting use to pos-contl, TCA, ARSA, Control Zone and uncontrolled. At least we didnt have "meters" for visability. Now Light Sport Airplanes! What next? It's like socialism for aviation, no one can be too fast. It's un-American to make "classes" where every one must go slow! May be this is an effort to spread mediocrity in airplane design across the globe. Some folks just can't design fast planes I guess.
Where do the fastest and best experimental kit planes come from? Just asking?
I would like to know where the LSA category really came from. I could see an expansion of the ultralight class, higher weight, two seats. I could see less restrictions on "Recreational Pilots" (which failed miserably BTW) so they could fly cross country. Whose idea was LSA? Who is paying for this new class? Taxes? Where there manufacturing lobbyist (USA/Europe/Rotax) that pushed the LSA class? LSA is business. Cheaper or less certification requirements to sell turn/key planes to the public.
LSA does not help any homebuilders, who have made planes cheaper and better. As I said LSA companies are greedy and want way too much money. The Cessna LSA may never come to pass, much less at "well south of $100,000" as the ceo claimed. He also said it has to make sense for the share holders. Cessna makes more selling one replacement part for a Citation than a whole LSA. The only thing is market and bringing in potential future customers. When Cessna was selling new C152's, they where under cost for that reason, building customer loyalty. This LSA class is more about manufactures and marketing than aeronautical excellence. I personally think the speed limit is to keep one brand from getting market advantage, more than safety. Clearly you can go faster than 135 mph on 100hp, at least in an American kit plane. Did anyone have problems as a student pilot handling a 120 mph C152 or Tomahawk? Its not about aviation joy or safety, its business and money.
I hope Sport Pilots and LSA's are a big success and I'm colossally wrong about it. I do predict there will be major cheating and non compliance with the 138 mph cruise and 1320 lb gross. Pilots will fly over gross Often! Two big people 400 lbs, leaves 920 lb empty. Add 120 lbs fuel, you have 800 lbs. That's with no bags. It not like a RV where we can say, the max gross is higher (which I am against btw). Empty weights also tend to get heavier as the years go by. Last, I also hope they eliminate the "catch 22" for pilots who where ever denied a medicals and are in limbo. So what is a LSA? ugh
LSA regs DRIVE ME CRAZY
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