Eggenfellner LSA Engine

rv6ejguy · #1 10-16-2006, 08:45 AM

Jan mentioned on his Forum that Their new LSA engine would start testing in Jan. '07 with probable release in Aug. '07 for sale. I think this is based on a Honda inline engine. Reported to be 100hp and about 200 lbs. A little heavy for an RV12 probably but might suit some of the other designs out there. It looks like a vast market.

frankh · #2 10-16-2006, 09:42 AM

The EA81 motor still makes a great 100HP+ package but I would only go to Ram performance for it.

Read the August article of Kitplanes mag which has my tale of dissaster written up and How Ram fixed it.

Frank

cjensen · #3 10-16-2006, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankh

The EA81 motor still makes a great 100HP+ package but I would only go to Ram performance for it.

Read the August article of Kitplanes mag which has my tale of dissaster written up and How Ram fixed it.

Frank

Didn't know that was you, Frank!

frankh · #4 10-16-2006, 10:36 AM

Yep I'm famous!

I got a lot of feedback (including hate mail) from that article, and I hope Ram got a lot of business..

Frank

RV7Guy · #5 10-16-2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rv6ejguy

A little heavy for an RV12 probably but might suit some of the other designs out there. It looks like a vast market.

Wouldn't matter if was a direct bolt on for the RV12. Van is ONLY selling the plane WITH the Rotax. Done Deal!!!!

Eggy should get all the bugs worked out of existing designs before venturing into something new.

gmcjetpilot · #6 10-16-2006, 03:17 PM

In the alternate engine world with less than 100 hp, there are a lot of candidates. Used with good success. The ones that come to mind are:

VW (keep it at or less than 80 hp for greater reliability)
Corvair (nice sites to build and install)
Suzuki (small light a cheap, availability? not sure)
Honda (originally the BD5 guys used or tried to use them years ago)

The first two have a good following with experience and support. Being air cooled they are light and simple. The Suzuki has some support and flight history and drives.

EAA sport aviation magazine really is pushing the LSA market of late. They claim their are almost 40 LSA's ready to fly. I was kind of excited at first, but when I saw a few ,that looked real nice, I noticed they went from $85,000 to $111,000. Ha ha ha, gee I love RV's.

rv6ejguy · #7 10-16-2006, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV7Guy

Wouldn't matter if was a direct bolt on for the RV12. Van is ONLY selling the plane WITH the Rotax. Done Deal!!!!

Eggy should get all the bugs worked out of existing designs before venturing into something new.

I'm not sure Jan specifically envisioned this engine for the RV12 as he has been working on the concept since before the -12 was announced. Plenty of other LSA designs to choose from. I think you will eventually see other powerplants installed in the -12 even if the Rotax comes with it.

the_other_dougreeves · #8 10-16-2006, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot

In the alternate engine world with less than 100 hp, there are a lot of canadates. Used with good success. The onest that come to mind are....

Jabiru 2200? 80Hp, 135 lb.

gmcjetpilot · #9 10-16-2006, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_other_dougreeves

Jabiru 2200? 80Hp, 135 lb.

I keep hearing about the Jabiru? How much $$? How many flying? Hey it may be great. Are they giving them away?

Here is my problem. LSA is suppose to be cheap, but all I see are planes NEAR $100,000. The engines they call for like the Rotax cost as much as a Continental O200. Plus the Rotax has a gear box and water cooling, both minuses, as the Subaru has.

Jabiru? An exotic rare engine from down under is fine, but a Continental O200 (brand spanking new) from Mattituck is $17,000!!!!! Why not. You can even get a IO-240 for a little more. I like the looks of the Jabiru more than the Rotax. The Rotax, with gear box and water cooling radiator (where to put it), is a turn off.

Continental O-200 or IO-240 is a great engine, direct drive aircooled. However the higher "real" power and weight does not fit the technologically limiting LSA speed/weight Regs. I think the LSA has been illconcieved, neither cheaper or safer. Also it's too restrictive with altitude limits of 10,000 ft msl! Forget LSA's in the Denver areas and many Western mountainous regions.

To make LSA work we need cheap engines and see that a VW is really better suited. However the LSA needs certified engines of some kind I believe (correct me if I am wrong), thus the Rotax. This is why LSA's are expensive. They are not using $6,000 engines; they are using engines that cost almost as much as a Lycoming. People complain about a $19,000 180hp Lyc but seem to not mind a 80hp or 115 hp Rotax, even though it cost almost as much.

That's the fallacy of this LSA class of LOW cost, low weight and slow speed entry level planes. I do NOT think it saves anyone much money or is safer..

The no medical thing is a red herring. You really need one or you are "self certified, grounded with any medical condition you are aware of. I don't think the $80 bucks every two years for a Third class medical is killing GA. If you can't get a 3rd class the faa really does not want you flying even as a LSA pilot.

People are jumping on the LSA band waggon with dollar signs in their eyes. Almost 40 turn key LSA planes are claimed by EAA. That is crazy. I think their expectations of the market is over blown.

We have had kit planes and that have met the LSA's spec planes for years, but they where never real popular: Kitfox, Sonex, Sonerai II. The KR2 and VariEZ make a nice LSA, but they are too fast (may be too high stall?). Existing factory planes that meet the LSA spec: Luscombe, Aeronca, Cessna (140) and Taylorcraft are great planes but somewhat long in the tooth. Still I would look for one to buy or fix up before I bought a new plastic LSA for $95,000. A nice old C140 cost a fraction of a fraction of a new LSA. Add new paint, inteiror, panel and engine OH you still are 1/2 of a new LSA. LSA's cost are crazy money for a tiny two seat plane with a go slow, low, light mission.

If I where to build a LSA it may be something like a Wag Aero Trainer (piper cub clone) with a new Continental and basic day VFR, may be no electical system? It would still cost $60 grand to build. Ironiclly I'll have less than $50,000 in my RV-7. The turn key www.legend.aero (cub clone) cost about $95,000. At least they use a Continental.

Deuskid · #10 10-17-2006, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot

Still I would look for one to buy or fix up before I bought a new plastic LSA for $95,000. A nice old C140 cost a fraction of that. LSA's cost are crazy money for a tiny two seat plane with a go slow mission.

I was told that you can't 'convert' a GA or experimental a/c to LSA. It has to be built and designated as one [the Lightning can be built to qualify for LSA or for 'regular' experimental status [for $50-60k bare bones in a few months]] and I inquired if I could built it as an experimental and if later need to make it LSA do so. I was told it was not allowable.

My info could be totally wrong tho, I didn't research it.

John