Questions on Van's QB description

[Saville]

As I read and re-read the description on Van's QB page, a few questions arise. It says:

"The builder must drill and rivet the one remaining skin, install the control pushrods and blind rivet the composite wingtips to the outboard end. The ailerons and flaps are assembled and attach to the wing with a few bolts and a hingepin. "

Question 1:

What is meant by ailerons and flaps "assembled"? Meaning they are built for you? Or does it mean: "The builder than assembles the ailerons and flaps and attach them to the wing with a few bolts and hinge pin"?

It goes on to say:

"We estimate that a builder working two hours an evening and a long Saturday can complete a wing to flight status in a week."

Question 2:

Does this "flight status" include landing light(s) and wing tip lights? Or do they mean absolute minimum flight status?

Question 3:

If the latter, then I assume one has to cut the hole(s) for any leading edge landing light(s); cut holes in the wingtips for running lights; and thread the wiring for all that inside a QB wing which does not have the final skin panel on, yes?

Question 4:

How hard is it to thread the said wire through the QB wing and provide it with a solid anchoring throughout the run as well as chafing protection?

Thanks!

[rightrudder]

Hey Saville,

1.) Yes, they are built, all riveted and ready to go. I think Van's estimate on the time required for final assembly is a mite optimistic. I am extremely pleased with the workmanship of the QB parts.

2.) I'm guessing "flight status" is the bare mimimum---day VFR without lights. All that wiring/crimping/fitting takes time. But it should be said that I work rather slowly and methodically.

3.) Yes. Cutouts are different, depending on which lights you use, so Van's doesn't precut anything here. I'm going with a single LED landing light in the wingtip recess, so I won't have to cut an opening in the wing.

4.) My QB wings came with holes and snap bushings for wiring in the wings already, but I think I'll remove them and run conduit the whole way. Access is quite good without the lower skin in place.

On the wingtips, most people will attach them with screws and nutplates rather than blind rivets, for easier access. This is a bit time-consuming as well.

I'd say if you can afford the higher cost of the QB assemblies, it is money well spent!! I'd venture it'll save me at least a year of construction time, maybe more. I enjoy building, but not THAT much, and I'm in awe of those who do the slow builds. ["I am not worthy" emoticon goes here ]

[bill@fusion4.net]

I did a slow build, but believe all the answers were spot on.

On the last question, before doing the bottom skin (that is why it is off), you do any wiring, and install the pitot tube & plumbing. Or install conduate so that you can wire later.

If you have not done a ton of riveting already, I would guess it will take a bit longer than Van's says, Took about 6 hours per bottom skin for me to do (on a 10) Wingtips w/nutplates took 8-10 hr for the set.

Still a great value.

[Rick_A]

There's actually ALOT more to do than Vans implies and what the previous answers might lead you to believe.

The things that I re-call from building 4+ years ago are:
1. Building up brackets to install ailerons.
2. Riveting aileron brackets to wings
3. Installing hinges on wings to mount flaps. - Not an easy task if want to make sure flaps & ailerons are in alignment.
4. If you're installing conduit, it takes a lot of work to drill the holes in the ribs - especially in the ribs that have already been skinned top & bottom.
5. Are you going to prime everything? If so, add time for that.
6. You have to install the aileron bellcrank and brackets. If you want an autopilot, this is the time to install the autopilot servo bracket.
7. Drilling the hole for the pitot tube must be done with extreme care, since the hole cuts into the main spar.
8. Installing the wing tips is a big job if you are looking for a high degree of fit and finish.
9. Landing lights can be done after the plane if flying, but plan ahead and run the wires ahead of time.

That's that stuff that comes to mind off the top of my head, but don't let me discourage you from building.

The quickbuild will save you TONS of work and for a new builder, the quality of work very good. Probably better then many first time builders could do. However, don't kid yourself, even with a quick build, you won't finish the wings in a week - not even close.

The wing is wash primed from vans.
The aileron brackets took me 5 minutes each.
The aileron brackets are impossible to mis-locate, spar is pilot drilled.
Ribs are already drilled for wire run, conduit unnecessary. Just run extra wire if you think you need it.
Again aileron bellcrank is a piece of cake already pilot drilled.
Aligning flaps no big deal.
I did the wings in less than a week each.
The only thing I primed is the close up skin and I riveted it alone.
Also I would suggest you forget the vans pitot tube, and get a proper one. Then there is no need to drill the spar. Also it you want a heated or AOA capable pitot the vans one won't work.
Vans wash primes almost everything and unless you plan to keep the airplane on the beach in my opinion additional priming is just more weight.
I had a 1957 C-182 that had no primer in the wings and in 2010 it showed no corrosion.
Anyway how are you going to prime where ribs meet the skin, pull it all apart?

It also depends what you want. You can go nuts and spend tons of time doing a lot of things that won't make the airplane any safer or faster or you can build what Vans designed as a simple capable airplane.
As far as painting goes you can spend tons of time and money on a paint job that only a few people at the airport and the line personnel will see.
What do you want to do, build or fly. I assume fly as you're considering a QB.

[Saville]

Originally Posted by paul mosher

The wing is wash primed from vans.
The aileron brackets took me 5 minutes each.
The aileron brackets are impossible to mis-locate, spar is pilot drilled.
Ribs are already drilled for wire run, conduit unnecessary. Just run extra wire if you think you need it.
Again aileron bellcrank is a piece of cake already pilot drilled.
Aligning flaps no big deal.
I did the wings in less than a week each.
The only thing I primed is the close up skin and I riveted it alone.
Also I would suggest you forget the vans pitot tube, and get a proper one. Then there is no need to drill the spar. Also it you want a heated or AOA capable pitot the vans one won't work.
Vans wash primes almost everything and unless you plan to keep the airplane on the beach in my opinion additional priming is just more weight.
I had a 1957 C-182 that had no primer in the wings and in 2010 it showed no corrosion.
Anyway how are you going to prime where ribs meet the skin, pull it all apart?

Thank you all for the answers.

Yes I thought about the pitot tube after I made the post - I assume one has to cut holes and install that from scratch? What about running the tubing?

Also, can you give me an idea of what fraction of the lower surface of the wing is exposed by the one wing skin NOT installed?

And does the open section run from root to tip? Or is it the outer panel?

And what about the air vent for the fuel tank(s)? Does that have to be done by the builder and done from scratch?


Thanks again.

[Saville]

Originally Posted by paul mosher

The wing is wash primed from vans.
The aileron brackets took me 5 minutes each.
The aileron brackets are impossible to mis-locate, spar is pilot drilled.

Hmmm so a Van's kit does NOT include everything you need to make a flyable (though maybe rudimentary) airplane?

One must fashion parts from scratch like these brackets?

How much other stuff has to be built from scratch in a QB?

thanks

[MarkW]

I do not want to detract from your desire to build a Van's aircraft but the work and fabrication on a QB wing kit is the easiest part of a build. You will have much more to worry about rather than these small things.

[Saville]

Originally Posted by MarkW

I do not want to detract from your desire to build a Van's aircraft but the work and fabrication on a QB wing kit is the easiest part of a build. You will have much more to worry about rather than these small things.

I understand.

I'm trying to get an accurate assessment of what's involved. And this discussion is a discovery.....if I have to make a lot of parts from scratch - if the QB wing kit does not result in a flyable set of wings - then I need to know if I need stuff like a sheet metal break and a shear etc.


Plus there's not a whole lot of statements about the QB fuselage on that page, so there's fewer opportunities for questions to arise about what is said. In perusing the forum I've seen details like canopy frame construction etc. I'm sure instrumentation and engine mounting, baffling, etc is a lot more work. Though..................

Question:

Does one have to have a sheet metal bending machine to bend the fore and aft fuselage skins to shape?


Thanks