Vanguard RV-3's Air Show....

[David-aviator]

....on 100% ethanol!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycRWr2M0s1Q

More information on the team, the planes, and sponsor AMERICAN ETHANOL

www.vanguardsquadron.com

I will try to get some information on what engine mods are necessary to burn ethanol as successfully as has been done with this team.

[David-aviator]

Just a quick follow up - I spoke with right wing pilot David Myers a few minutes ago. (He has a phone number on the team web site)

I asked him specifically what mods were done the the 0320 engines other than high compression cylinders - none except the fuel nozzle jets were slightly enlarged to accommodate higher fuel flow for the 160+ HP.

The single most perplexing item in the system, for me, is the mechanical fuel pump. I asked about it. They have always used the stock Lycoming pump.

Very interesting. I could save over $2 a gallon on fuel by burning 91 octane E10 fuel from Walmart.

[49clipper]

david,
I thought they burned pure ethanol, not 10% like you mentioned. You would not need the increased fuel flow for the 10% I would not think.
Jim
RV-6
Aero Estates

[adrianolsantos]

In Brazil we have been using ethanol in Lycoming engines for the last 10 years. Most agricultural aircraft equipped with lycon IO540 are certified by Brazilian authorities for ethanol. We just change fuel noozles because we use a higher fuel flow (24 gph in cruise instead of 17 gph). You must take care of aluminum fuel lines and tanks because of corrosion and add a cold weather start system because you wont get to start the engine below 20 celsius.

[N941WR]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the EPA will drop the BS ethanol mandate now that the UN is saying it doesn't help with global warming.

About all it has done is help the corn producers, who are now mostly corporations and not family farms.

[WillyEyeBall]

Very interesting discussion on ethanol, but the airshow performance with the 4 identical RV-3s is just outstanding. Beautiful maneuvers and even the Blue Angles or Thunderbirds don't do hammerheads.
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider
lower Alabama

[N427EF]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the EPA will drop the BS ethanol mandate

Why wait? If the Vanguard squadron doesn't convince you nothing else will.


[quote]

I thought they burned pure ethanol, not 10% like you mentioned. You would not need the increased fuel flow for the 10% I would not think.
Jim

According to their own accounts they mix and match any and all combinations of avgas, ethanol and mogas with or without ethanol.
While no one will certify the mechanical fuel pump for ethanol, after watching the Vanguard squadron perform for over 10 years, I am no longer concerned about a mechanical fuel pump failure due to ethanol intolerance.

Mogas is now more than $2.- less per gallon in these parts of the USA.
Don't want to hear anyone complaining about 6 dollar avgas.


]http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ighlight=mogas

[ChiefPilot]

Originally Posted by WillyEyeBall

Very interesting discussion on ethanol, but the airshow performance with the 4 identical RV-3s is just outstanding. Beautiful maneuvers and even the Blue Angles or Thunderbirds don't do hammerheads.
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider
lower Alabama

I agree - I saw them in LaCrosse WI last month and they were spectacular. I was more impressed with their flying skills than with any other act at the show - Blue Angels included.

[PaigeHoffart]

Don't forget about ethanol's effect on vapor pressure
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/page/-/RVP...al.pdf?nocdn=1

Paige

[N427EF]

Don't forget about ethanol's effect on vapor pressure

Constant flow return line : End of vapor lock story!

It really is very simple, the hardest part is overcoming the tide of naysayers,
most of whom have never even tried to use mogas with ethanol.


In the face of 4 very successful (Vanguard squadron) and public users of ethanol gasoline and many years (more than 10 years) of problem free engine operation the demons of vapor lock and detonation keep most pilots away from even trying.

I am not trying to sell you anything but give that fuel a try sometime and you'll be pleasantly surprised. Although none of the Vanguard airplanes has any modifications done to the fuel system other than enlarging the fuel injectors for the higher fuel flow delivery of pure (90%) ethanol, most of us still won't trust them. What about vapor lock, what about detonation, if that worries you like it did me, install a constant flow return line and you won't need to worry about vapor lock any longer.