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  #41  
Old 06-24-2014, 11:02 AM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Low Pass View Post
How? By becoming heat sinks?
According to Don Rivera at Air Flow Performance, a 90 degree fitting can cause bubbles to form in the fuel. He recommends the fuel line be run up between the two cylinders and to keep the fuel lines as short and fitting free as possible. Obviously, the 90 degree fitting into the "spider" is required.

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Originally Posted by Low Pass View Post
Why??

I see some issues here, but not as many as all this "someone's gonna spontaneously combust" indignation warrants. I've seen rental planes with similar conditions under the cowl.
As I understand it, that is one of the hottest parts of the engine compartment and the radiant heat from the cylinder, along with the 90 degree fitting could be a source of vapor lock.
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  #42  
Old 06-24-2014, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
According to Don Rivera at Air Flow Performance, a 90 degree fitting can cause bubbles to form in the fuel. He recommends the fuel line be run up between the two cylinders and to keep the fuel lines as short and fitting free as possible. Obviously, the 90 degree fitting into the "spider" is required.
.....
Which is why some IO- Lycoming inter-cylinder baffles have a hole in them...
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  #43  
Old 06-24-2014, 01:57 PM
Bevan Bevan is offline
 
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Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
According to Don Rivera at Air Flow Performance, a 90 degree fitting can cause bubbles to form in the fuel.
I wouldn't think a fitting would cause bubbles to form on the "pressurized" side of a fuel injection system. I could be wrong though, probably am... I'm married.

Bevan
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  #44  
Old 06-24-2014, 02:17 PM
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RVbySDI RVbySDI is offline
 
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Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
No idea, I didn't ask. All I did was help arrange for him to get these issues corrected, which he did. He reported back that the plane is now operating as expected.

These pictures were not posted to flame anyone or trash a guy's purchase but as a learning tool for those who are still building.

If someone has a good, clean installation, can you send me your pictures and I'll post them anonymously as a comparison for best practices. (I have a carb, otherwise I would post my pictures.)
Wellllll . . . I have what I, and many others who have inspected my plane, consider a clean, safe, appropriate, (insert whatever adjective you wish here) fuel injected firewall forward install. I might be inclined to acquiesce to your request for a picture, if it were not for the smug indignation of the other posters on this thread. I am sure I was in no way perfect in my installation, I even had some issues during Phase I that required fixing under the cowl after the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th flight. I even had some issues underneath the cowl I had to address at the last condition inspection. However, I am not at all interested in submitting my admittedly fragile ego to the same smug indignation, or even the opposite, 'pats on the back' for a job well done attitude, that could come from such a submission. Even the opposite reaction to the prevailing comments here still would have their basis in the smug attitude that is prevailing in these comments.

Everyone has issues that need addressing in their construction practices. I think it poor taste to openly post in a format that ensures there will be anonymous bashing of someone's construction or maintenance practices without at least giving that person the benefit of 'addressing her/his detractors' first hand and having the opportunity to personally address the shortcomings that might be evident in her/his build. Why is it not appropriate to contact the builder and inquire into that person's building practices that might lead to an offer of some of the above advice to the person directly? If he is so bad at building that these issues are so terribly bad or inappropriate, then it behooves all of us in this community to address the issue directly with that person. It does him or others reading these posts little good to hide behind a computer screen while we smugly imply with our comments that we are much better builders than this person and would never make such mistakes. If this person needs some direction on best practices and build quality, does anyone here really think he will get it from these comments on this forum? I for one, do not think he will gain much from it, nor will most of us reading these posts. At best we may glean some measure of knowledge we may not have understood much about before, but at what cost is that knowledge? We are basically just joining in on the camaraderie with a group that implies that we belong to an elite group of individuals that would NEVER BUILD ANYTHING SO LACKING!

Please, we are better than that! Aren't we?
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Last edited by RVbySDI : 06-24-2014 at 03:25 PM.
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  #45  
Old 06-24-2014, 02:17 PM
Bavafa Bavafa is offline
 
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This is actually a great exercise, next time I have my cowl off I will take a few pix and will post it to get so many good eyes on it. How could I not have thought of that 500 hours ago at my first flight. Luckily it went fine.
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  #46  
Old 06-24-2014, 03:00 PM
krw5927 krw5927 is offline
 
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Default Not smug indignation

This thread serves as a great education for most of us who look at these sorts of photos and comments with open eyes and minds and are willing to learn a thing or two.

I am lucky to live in a community with several experienced builders who could point me in the right direction when needed. Not everyone has that luxury, though, and threads like this may just save someone's life someday. There were things that I didn't even think of which were pointed out by experienced observers, and I feel that I learned something here. The fact that these issues were addressed in a public forum is the very reason there is an educational opportunity. If they had been discussed privately with the builder or buyer, then the rest of us lost the opportunity to learn.

If someone's feelings (including mine) are hurt in the interest of greater overall safety, then so be it. To anyone who ever lays eyes on my plane: please point out ANYTHING that you feel may be even the slightest bit unsafe. I may decide to ignore you, but at least I would be educated that there may be a problem.
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Last edited by krw5927 : 06-24-2014 at 03:04 PM.
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  #47  
Old 06-24-2014, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by RVbySDI View Post
Everyone has issues that need addressing in their construction practices. I think it poor taste to openly post in a format that ensures there will be anonymous bashing of someone's construction or maintenance practices...
Well said, Steve...I for one agree with you.

Kurt, I think the point is the lack of discussing the problems in a factual manner. Instead, the tone in which many are using is pretty bad.
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  #48  
Old 06-24-2014, 03:22 PM
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RVbySDI RVbySDI is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krw5927 View Post
This thread serves as a great education for most of us who look at these sorts of photos and comments with open eyes and minds and are willing to learn a thing or two.

I am lucky to live in a community with several experienced builders who could point me in the right direction when needed. Not everyone has that luxury, though, and threads like this may just save someone's life someday. There were things that I didn't even think of which were pointed out by experienced observers, and I feel that I learned something here. The fact that these issues were addressed in a public forum is the very reason there is an educational opportunity. If they had been discussed privately with the builder or buyer, then the rest of us lost the opportunity to learn.

If someone's feelings (including mine) are hurt in the interest of greater overall safety, then so be it. To anyone who ever lays eyes on my plane: please point out ANYTHING that you feel may be even the slightest bit unsafe. I may decide to ignore you, but at least I would be educated that there may be a problem.
Perhaps my point was not well articulated. I also had multiple individuals, experienced and otherwise, go over my plane many times during the build. They still do so to this day 4 years later anytime they are around any work I am doing. That was not my point. I was not implying that the education was not of some value. What I am saying is why not talk to the builder FIRST. Afterwards everyone can have a public discussion of the issues that were addressed with the builder.
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  #49  
Old 06-24-2014, 04:09 PM
paul mosher
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVbySDI View Post
Perhaps my point was not well articulated. I also had multiple individuals, experienced and otherwise, go over my plane many times during the build. They still do so to this day 4 years later anytime they are around any work I am doing. That was not my point. I was not implying that the education was not of some value. What I am saying is why not talk to the builder FIRST. Afterwards everyone can have a public discussion of the issues that were addressed with the builder.
No one knows who the builder is except the guy that bought the plane.
I don't think there was a lot of bashing. I suggested a good reference ala 43:13 or Tony B's books is better than winging it.
I'd rather have my feelings hurt than be dead.
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  #50  
Old 06-24-2014, 07:20 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVbySDI View Post
.... I am sure I was in no way perfect in my installation, I even had some issues during Phase I that required fixing under the cowl after the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th flight. I even had some issues underneath the cowl I had to address at the last condition inspection.
As have the rest of us. That is exactly the point of this thread. It was posted so the rest of us can learn from this example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RVbySDI View Post
However, I am not at all interested in submitting my admittedly fragile ego to the same smug indignation, or even the opposite, 'pats on the back' for a job well done attitude, that could come from such a submission....
That is fine and exactly the reason I offered to post pictures anonymously. I would think that if we posted pictures from a certified airplane, this gang would find something to pick at. That is a good thing as we can all learn something and improve our installation.
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Last edited by N941WR : 06-24-2014 at 07:32 PM.
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