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  #11  
Old 06-13-2014, 09:38 PM
WhiskeyMike WhiskeyMike is offline
 
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Location: WA State
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+2 for Rocketbob.

There are an endless number of things that people do that indirectly affect others in a way that they may not like! A tiny sample of such things includes:

The way they vote
The products/services they support
The way they drive
The way they fly
Their chosen lifestyle

The Great Experiment which is the U.S.A. was founded on the principles of individual rights, NOT collective rights. Once you begin to compromise these principles it becomes a very slippery slope and, as Rocketbob correctly noted, where do you draw the line? And perhaps even more importantly, WHO draws that line?? Your neighbor? Some bureaucrat?

President Regan said “as government expands liberty contracts”. He got it right!

[ed. I love a good safety discussion, but let's take the government talk to another site. http://www.vansairforce.net/rules.htm if you need to re-read it. br,dr]
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Last edited by DeltaRomeo : 06-14-2014 at 05:44 AM.
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  #12  
Old 06-13-2014, 11:18 PM
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flightlogic flightlogic is offline
 
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Odd..... this got way off track from intense thunderstorms. Maybe a separate thread for those that like daring flying.... ??
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  #13  
Old 06-14-2014, 04:50 AM
PaigeHoffart PaigeHoffart is offline
 
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I'm all for personal freedoms, but those that don't study history are doomed to repeat it.

If you don't think it can happen to you, just look at the case of Scott Crossfield:
http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/A...s-Another-Dawn

Here's a good refresher:
http://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac%2000-24c.pdf

Paige
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  #14  
Old 06-14-2014, 06:13 AM
sailvi767 sailvi767 is offline
 
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Location: Charlotte NC
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After 35 years of flying nothing scares me worse then thunderstorms and convective activity. The reason is simple. They are never predictable. You might get away with the same thing near storms 99 times but on the 100th time it goes very bad. I cringe when I see posts of RV's slipping between cells or ducking under storms to pick their way through lines of cells. You are simply rolling the dice.
This is not just a problem with low time pilots. Last summer in Columbus Ohio I witnessed a major airline flight land in what I can only describe as one of the worst acts of airmanship I have witnessed by a professional pilot. We had diverted to Columbus from CVG because a massive line of storms were moving rapidly through the area. We raced the line to CVG but it beat us there so we abandoned the approach and diverted. In Columbus after looking at the strength and size of the line we decided to wait it out on the ground. We watched it approaching the field on foreflight and the ships radar. As it reached the field boundary we were seeing a inky green solid wall of water coming at us. At that point we pick up a 737 coming in to land opposite the storm. We had 3 pilots on board all stunned by what we were seeing. We dialed tower up and listened as tower called out west boundary wind shear alerts to the 737. They pressed on regardless and made a safe landing. Less then 30 seconds after they landed we were reading 60 knots on our airspeed indicators as the outflow hit while sitting still. The wind was so bad they reported they were unable to taxi. After they landed another aircraft summed it up by transmitting on ground "gutsy move xxxxx gutsy move!"

Last edited by sailvi767 : 06-14-2014 at 06:17 AM.
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  #15  
Old 06-14-2014, 07:13 PM
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BCP Boys BCP Boys is offline
 
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How is flying formation, a skill that can be learned, practiced and flown safely be compared to flying in a thunderstorm? How could anyone be comfortable flying in a thunderstorm and be an advocate of it. I'm so completely baffled about the argument here. . . Doug's assessment is dead on (no pun intended). I don't care how many hours anyone has and how "comfortable" they are flying in IFR conditions, airplanes (any size) do not do well in a thunderstorm cell and to say that one could have the skill to fly it, should have the freedom to fly in it, is just unbelievable to me. Wow! No one is saying "how to fly" or "how to drive" just to tell other what to do, this is simple logic that came from someone that obviously cares about this community.
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  #16  
Old 06-14-2014, 07:39 PM
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ChiefPilot ChiefPilot is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCP Boys View Post
How is flying formation, a skill that can be learned, practiced and flown safely be compared to flying in a thunderstorm? How could anyone be comfortable flying in a thunderstorm and be an advocate of it. I'm so completely baffled about the argument here. . . Doug's assessment is dead on (no pun intended). I don't care how many hours anyone has and how "comfortable" they are flying in IFR conditions, airplanes (any size) do not do well in a thunderstorm cell and to say that one could have the skill to fly it, should have the freedom to fly in it, is just unbelievable to me. Wow! No one is saying "how to fly" or "how to drive" just to tell other what to do, this is simple logic that came from someone that obviously cares about this community.
I don't think any sane pilot would agree that flying *into* a thunderstorm is a-ok. The difference comes from how far away is "safe" / how close is "dangerous". That's the (no pun intended) gray area.
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  #17  
Old 06-15-2014, 12:10 PM
bruceg bruceg is offline
 
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So, do airports attract rain showers?

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  #18  
Old 06-15-2014, 02:14 PM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceg View Post
So, do airports attract rain showers?
....
Yes... every glider pilot knows that the black runways create thermals...
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  #19  
Old 06-15-2014, 05:17 PM
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rocketbob rocketbob is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCP Boys View Post
How is flying formation, a skill that can be learned, practiced and flown safely be compared to flying in a thunderstorm?
Its very similar in that you learn to think and keep your head under duress while flying. I've flown very close to and around many thunderstorms in the last 20 years and have a good understanding of what is safe vs. what isn't. Most of the time you can have lightning near by you and be in pretty smooth conditions. My requirement is always to have a clear and easy plan B out...easily managed risk.
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  #20  
Old 06-15-2014, 05:32 PM
sailvi767 sailvi767 is offline
 
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Close to thunderstorms and lightening is not a place you really want to be. Yes it's often dead calm but one day it will be the opposite in the extreme. Everyone has a different concept of close so yours might be further then mine. Most airline flight departments use the following distances. 20 miles away while in the enroute phase above 20,000 feet. 5 miles away below 10,000 feet and 3 miles away while in the approach or departure phase. The last restriction is the one I would take to heart in a RV.

George
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