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  #11  
Old 06-07-2014, 07:32 AM
bill v bill v is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: zeeland michigan
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Default too deep?

the manual says a few clicks deeper for holes that will have a dimpled skin over them. So now what is a few clicks to me your holes are too deep and the counter sink has cut too far to have the pilot work as a guide and it can go sideways while cutting. However i see no problem with what you have. I still debate with what is correct. For me vans says so that the rivet is .005 deeper then flush and i cannot measure this but in one of the cataloges it said that their countersinks had a .001 change per clicks so i did 5 clicks deeper. it doesnot look deep enough to me but i only go 6 or 7 clicks and check often because its not perfect the amount of flex in the parts the sharpness of the cutter, how hard i push all come into play. I want the rivet to sit deep in the cut but not as deep as you have but again i don't see any problem. An opps rivet has a slightly larger head and the hole would be round but at 1/8 size. i'm courious what other people will say about the pictures because i still debate with myself on what is correct
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  #12  
Old 06-07-2014, 07:36 AM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
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Location: Estes Park, CO
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Default Holes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron RV8 View Post
They don't look that elongated, just a little deep.

Aren't those the holes where the skin attaches? If so they have to be a little deeper to accommodate the skin anyways.

Suggest making test pieces, pieces of scrap skin of various thicknesses that you drill & dimple for each size fastener you use. Then use these to judge the depth of countersink.

If you really do oversize a hole, you can go up to a -4 rivet, but you'd have to dimple the skin to suit...

If the rivets hold nutplates, they're only there to keep the nutplate from turning so are not as critical...
I agree.
make a set of sample tokens with common thickness and every dimple size in your tool kit. They are invaluable.
Ask Vans if it really bothers you but it looks like a "build on" moment to me.
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  #13  
Old 06-07-2014, 07:50 AM
HeliCooper HeliCooper is offline
 
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Location: Des Moines, IA
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Default

I believe the depth is correct. Section 5 says to set the countersink .007 inches below a flush rivet and or adjust for a good dimpled skin fit. I set it to .008 below a flush rivet countersink as the skin is .032. Below are some more pictures. These show the problem better I believe.

Back side. You can even see the elongation without the rivet in place.


Again you can see the elongation without a rivet it place.


Front with rivet held in place.


Don't be getting my hopes up by saying build on. If you guys are on the fence I will definitely send these off to Vans.
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  #14  
Old 06-07-2014, 07:59 AM
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apkp777 apkp777 is offline
 
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Default

Deleted my post. I was thinking that these holes were for the nutplates, but instead I see they are for the skin rivets. My bad. I would send the pictures over to Van's and see what they say.
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Last edited by apkp777 : 06-07-2014 at 02:42 PM.
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  #15  
Old 06-07-2014, 08:03 AM
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osxuser osxuser is offline
 
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Default

I'd say that is minor enough that the rivet will easily fill the void. Take care setting them to not get them side loaded... and build on!
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  #16  
Old 06-07-2014, 01:58 PM
WingsOnWheels WingsOnWheels is offline
 
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Location: Plano, TX
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Default

Based on the pictures, it does look like the countersink is a bit deep. A -3 rivet in 0.063 shouldn't leave a knife-edge. I found that for a countersink to properly fit a dimple, you should just be able to see a defined ring around the head of the rivet when held in the countersunk hole. With 0.063, there should still be a think, but visable thickness of un-cut material opppsite the countersink. As for the out of round, a backup tool work great. Also, don't use the air drill to run the countersink (not sure if you were), a slower rpm from an electric drill works better. All that said, it look like "build on" to me, but doesn't hurt to ask vans.
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  #17  
Old 06-08-2014, 06:21 PM
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R. Daniels R. Daniels is offline
 
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Just take a piece of .032" aluminum strip 1/2" wide. Drill and C/S, use that as a check for your depth. If the hole in your spar is not deep enough the test strip will rock and will not sit flush. You need to set your depth stop in increments until the strip will just sit flush. A rivet is not the way to test the depth. A dimpled piece of aluminum is a different dimension than a rivet.
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  #18  
Old 12-20-2014, 12:44 PM
sblack sblack is offline
 
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Default

You might have excessive runout in your electric dill. A lot of the cheap chinese drills have that problem. I have been struggling with that myself.
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  #19  
Old 12-20-2014, 06:25 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Not sure this is the issue, but I try to use high drill speeds on aluminum; slow on steel.
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  #20  
Old 12-20-2014, 08:12 PM
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carrollcw carrollcw is offline
 
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1 - as others have said, build on! Those look fine. You will never achieve perfection.

2 - I set my drill at its highest speed for countersinking. Less time for the bit to wobble and I tend to get more consistent depths.
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