welding

prkaye · #1 09-29-2006, 09:50 PM

Is welding a really big deal? Is it something I can learn to do on my own, in my garage? What sort of investment in equipment is required?
Or is this something I would be better advised to outsource to the pros?

cytoxin · #2 09-29-2006, 10:00 PM

is for pros espcially if your talking engine mounts.. difficult to tell without years of experinece and x ray inspection on tube welds if thorough fussion has been acheived ..yeah you can learn in the back yard but some things like your mount (mentioned in another post) are something you will want a certified welder to do or at lest i would and i have had a/c structures welding and have built trailers(heavily loaded) deer stands 20+ feet tall and put my kid and myself in i still will not weld on my plane unless its non structural. im sure others will disagree YMMV

videobobk · #3 09-30-2006, 06:11 AM

Okay, I disagree--sorta. Welding is something that takes skill, but it isn't that difficult to learn. I would suggest spending a few days at the welding workshop at Oshkosh as a start. And while x-rays are nice, you can learn a lot with a good hacksaw. Cut up your practice work and have someone who knows examine it. I grew up with a father who was a certified aircraft welder and he taught me a lot of "tricks" that you won't learn, but you can do good work with practice. Not having welded seriously in probably 20 years, I wouldn't touch anything structural, but I could get back up to speed. Try it and see how it goes. Some people are quick learners. Good luck!

Bob Kelly

Mike Armstrong · #4 09-30-2006, 11:25 AM

Phil, I've been contemplating the same thing. There's some great info across the web. Check EAA's website and this thread if you haven't seen it...

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=11267

Low Pass · #5 09-30-2006, 12:30 PM

Welding components that will hurt you if they fail is not something to take lightly. There are lots and lots of variables. Enough to fill a book.

You can get some decent equipment for ~$500. Better for $1000. Better than that for $2000. You get the picture.

I've written and reviewed welding procedures and inspection processes for pressure vessels, but wouldn't trust my own welding skills on a critical airplane component. But I can weld the heck out of jigs, engine stands, and other things that won't get me into too much trouble if they fail!

Point is, it takes a fair amount of skill and practice with every type of welding process. Unless you have exceptional ability, decent equipment and the experience to know what is/is not a good weld, then I'd suggest sticking with the non-critical welding.

To sum it up, respectfully - if you have to ask, I wouldn't recommend you do any of your own aircraft welding. Do some more research. EAA has some good general videos. Lots on the Internet.

2 cents

rv8ch · #6 09-30-2006, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prkaye

...is this something I would be better advised to outsource to the pros?

Just curious - what do you plan to weld? I have not needed to weld anything for my RV8...

Just read another thread where you wrote about an engine mount. I guess that answers my question!

pierre smith · #7 09-30-2006, 01:51 PM

Phil,
What sort of welding are you talking about? Electric with an arc, or Oxy/Acetylene for aircraft structure.

An old EAA tech advisor gave me a lot of good pointers when I built my Cassutt fuselage and motor mount with oxy/acet. I also had a booklet on welding and practiced on a lot of short 4130 chromemoly pieces. After a couple of weeks of trying, asking more questions and trying again, I finally had a pretty good looking cluster welded up (three tubes converging on each other, onto a fourth one, like on a longeron). I showed an A&P/IA the weld and he asked if I minded if he destroyed it testing it. He put it in a vise and beat the sh** out of it with a small sledge hammer until he broke all three pieces off the longeron. When none of the welds had broken but only the tubing just outside of the weld, he said that would pass because they now were proven-the tubing broke, not the welds.

So I went home, tacked the entire fuselage together and by that time had even more experience and did another cluster which passed and the fuselage was finish welded.

Later, the airplane was tested to 7 g's at an air race, then raced, flown for several years and sold.

Many homebuilts are still welded up in garages and shops and an A&P/IA can inspect your trial welds. With practice, you can learn too.
Go for it,

prkaye · #8 09-30-2006, 03:34 PM

Ok, so it sounds like it might not be a good idea for me to attempt welding things like an engine mount. Next question is, how can i get things like this welded? Are there shops in most major cities that provide this service? (how about Ottawa?) How do I know who to trust welding aircraft parts?

cytoxin · #9 09-30-2006, 07:54 PM

it was not my intent to discourage, only that i know you are building an aluminum plane. its not worth the investment and risk just for a peice or two.if you were gonna do the whole thing (tube and fabric) id say go for it.
the cheapest way would be oxy accetylene but like pierre said lots of 4130 stubs and practice.(still cheap though) if you are like the most builders you will enjoy learning a new skill. it is a nice skill to have since so many little things can be fixed quickly at home. i would call vans or egg to see who does theirs. im not big on the car engine in a plane so my knowlege is limited in that area. please no car v/s lyc wars just a preference i have read all those fights already

depending on your area try the yellow pages you may be surprised. i live near a steel mill,esab cutting and welding manufacturer. the local tech college has a great skills and cant keep up with the demand for good welders. there out there just gotta look.

Low Pass · #10 10-01-2006, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cytoxin

it was not my intent to discourage, only that i know you are building an aluminum plane. its not worth the investment and risk just for a peice or two.if you were gonna do the whole thing (tube and fabric) id say go for it.
the cheapest way would be oxy accetylene but like pierre said lots of 4130 stubs and practice.(still cheap though) if you are like the most builders you will enjoy learning a new skill. it is a nice skill to have since so many little things can be fixed quickly at home......

Excellent point here... I just welded up a nice kayak rack for my truck last night. Used my nice little Northern Tool MIG machine for it. Lots of splatter with the flux core wire, but it's strong as heck.

One other point to think about. Regardless of who welds the engine mount, don't forget about the structural considerations of the whole arrangement. The welds may be works of art and perfect structurally, but if the tubing buckles or bends under a load, you're still in trouble. Just didn't want you to miss this point.