What next for Van's?

[rgmwa]

Van's are currently producing and fine-tuning RV-14 kits and these seem to be selling very well, as are the various other models in their current lineup. The manufacturing side of the business is probably very busy, but where to with design after the RV-14? Since STOL doesn't seem to be compatible with `total performance' and they appear to have every other single engine aircraft base covered, what else can they turn their talents to that will produce a reasonable return on investment and not compete with what they already have? Have they finally reached the end of the design line, or will they come up with another neat variation on a theme like the RV-14?

[rhill]

Under Lessons Learned:

"We Will Release No Kit Before Its Time!"

[Don]

I think this horse has been beaten before. Lot's of creative ideas, high wing STOL, a turbine engine two seater, a redesigned match-hole single seater, a twin, a powered glider, and some other clever thoughts...and no shortage of humorous ones too!

In the bigger picture, Van's Aircraft has radically influenced not just the home built industry but the LSA, and I'd argue GA. I think the fact that the FAA is **considering** allowing experimental avionics in certificated aircraft is largely due to the market for experimental avionics that Van's has created. I could go on but my real point here is Van's really hasn't seen any serious competition from any other kit manufacturer, in terms of number of units sold.

I'm keep expecting some real competition to arise and provide new aircraft options. I fully expect (and hope) Van's will be around for a long time but one or two real competitors could change the whole dynamic of GA in ways we can't imagine.

[rgmwa]

Originally Posted by Don

I think this horse has been beaten before. Lot's of creative ideas, high wing STOL, a turbine engine two seater, a redesigned match-hole single seater, a twin, a powered glider, and some other clever thoughts...and no shortage of humorous ones too!

You're right, lots of ideas have been tossed around before and it's made for entertaining reading. But Van's has to take a commercial approach in whatever they do in order to remain a viable business in the long term. What they have focussed on to date has been incremental development and it's been a very good business model for them. However, will it be enough for the future or will they need to do something different to maintain their success. I guess the RV-12 SLSA could be considered a new market direction, but what else could they do?

[rbibb]

As the sophistication of the kits has advanced to complexity of delivering them has increased - probably in some sort of exponential fashion. The amount of effort to produce a kit for something like the RV-14 versus, say, the RV-6 is a good example.

Such effort takes engineering man-hours just like coming up with a new design. That a new design would pretty much be a complete new configuration as variants of two-place, low-wing, sportplanes has pretty much been covered I don't see anything "radical" coming for awhile.

But who knows what lurks in the crafty minds of the engineers at Van's. At some point the creative juices gotta flow and sketches start being done on the backs of napkins. Then the real work begins to realize the dream.

In the mean time I just hope the market can keep growing enough to support a healthy enterprise and the same prudent management style guides the thinking so they don't get too far in front of their headlights.

I've said it before but Van deserves more recognition for his impact on AVIATION, period. Just look at all the accolades Burt Rutan has (justifiably) received compared to Van's. Rutan is certainly a genius but Van has had more of an impact on GA than anyone in the business in the last 40 years, IMHO. There should be a huge display at the EAA museum telling that story. I know, the RV-1, etc. is now there. But get out the tape measure and look at the square footage versus others and I will rest my case.

[iwannarv]

It would be great to see Vans team up with another kit manufacture to offer that high wing option.

Take the Bearhawk Patrol. The design already exists - it looks like an attractive option. Good slow speed, good cruise, flush riveted aluminum wing. Its no Cub, but....

So why doesn't an RV builder just go for a Bearhawk Patrol to fill that want for a good cruising STOL? Its Brand Loyalty - RV builders want VANS to do it.

So could a partnership be made? Partnership the rights to the Bearhawk Patrol - Vans-ify it a bit to refine it to their standards and pull it into their kit manufacturing and plans structure to roll it out to market. It wouldn't have to be a clean sheet design all together. Vans has another 'branded' plane on the market, and Bearhawk is in the background of it all getting the loyalties of a lot more of 'their airplane' on the market.

Basically right now, I think if Vans took the exact Bearhawk Patrol design and rolled it out with a VANS sticker on it - I bet order forms would roll in.

[TShort]

This has been said before as well, but I bet a prepunched -3 kit would sell like crazy!

[DaleB]

I can see the point about the Bearhawk Patrol, or the Bearhawk LSA for that matter. And in fact, I looked seriously at building one when it became apparent I wouldn't be able to renew my medical (and before I decided to build on and hope for the best).

I decided against the BH LSA for several reasons, some of which could easily be addressed by "Van's-ifying" the kit, some not. One was that their "quick build" kit still leaves you on your own for all the hardware, commonly available parts, etc. You really have no idea what you're going to be spending by the time you're done building, but it's going to approach or exceed the cost of an RV-12. If Van's offered that or something similar I'd expect to see a factory-welded frame and ALL parts and hardware included. I suspect, though, you'd end up with a pretty spendy airplane by the time you're done. Besides... that whole airplane is such a complete and radical departure from anything Van's has ever done, I wonder if it would be a good fit for them as a company.

It's hard to think of a reasonable area where Van's doesn't have an offering. Something like a "stretch" RV-9 -- four seats, 180HP, something in between the RV-7/9 and the RV-10, kind of a Cherokee/172 replacement -- would sell like hot cakes, but would probably cut into RV-9 and -10 sales substantially. So if I were in their shoes, I don't know that I would even go there.

[diamond]

I see both sides of the issue, but I'm not sure I want McDonald's making my burrito and not sure I want Taco Bell making my burger. Besides, if Vans expanded into the high wing arena, I'd be concerned that they wouldn't be as responsive to my low wing support issues, unless they expanded their manpower, facilities, etc. They may rightfully be content with the size of their current operations.

[Mike S]

Originally Posted by TShort

This has been said before as well, but I bet a prepunched -3 kit would sell like crazy!

Re-engineered a bit to fit the modern sized pilot would also help.