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  #21  
Old 03-31-2014, 01:09 PM
Fred.Stucklen's Avatar
Fred.Stucklen Fred.Stucklen is offline
 
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Default X Wind Landings

I used to fly a BC-12D Talorcraft on days when the wind was blowing so hard, I could "hover" above the airport. And usually the winds were across the runway. Given that the Talorcraft stalled at 40 MPH, it was definately windy, and required one to fly the airplane onto the ground, sometimes at 2X stall speed. But all that practice really became usefull one day when I did a GPS-27 approach into KeyWest with a 48 knot G54 90* cross wind, in the dark, in the rain, in an RV-6A (with the big rudder). The approach was sideways all the way into the flair, then just at the stall point, a burst of power and full left rudder. The result was a "plop" onto the runway with no sideloads, and no bounce! After two other commuter go-arounds, they closed the airport! So definately practice.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by walkman View Post
I was going to title this "am I nuts" but I think know the answer to that.

Winds 16G22 today, nothing flying at the home airport, and I'm out trying to find the runway with the greatest cross wind component and practicing stop and goes.

I got 10 in and it felt like an hour in the gym.

Does anyone else put themselves through this sort of thing for fun?

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wstucklen1@cox.net
RV-7A N924RV Flying (1965 Hrs & counting)
RV-6A N926RV 875 Hrs (Sold)
RV-6A N925RV 2008 Hrs (Sold)

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  #22  
Old 03-31-2014, 08:34 PM
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walkman walkman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred.Stucklen View Post
I used to fly a BC-12D Talorcraft on days when the wind was blowing so hard, I could "hover" above the airport. And usually the winds were across the runway. Given that the Talorcraft stalled at 40 MPH, it was definately windy, and required one to fly the airplane onto the ground, sometimes at 2X stall speed. But all that practice really became usefull one day when I did a GPS-27 approach into KeyWest with a 48 knot G54 90* cross wind, in the dark, in the rain, in an RV-6A (with the big rudder). The approach was sideways all the way into the flair, then just at the stall point, a burst of power and full left rudder. The result was a "plop" onto the runway with no sideloads, and no bounce! After two other commuter go-arounds, they closed the airport! So definately practice.....
Please be careful. I lost a very good friend doing this in a Cub. It doesn't take much of a burble to stall one wing, and at low altitude there's little time to recover before you make a smokin' hole in the ground.
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  #23  
Old 03-31-2014, 08:48 PM
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wjb wjb is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGlaeser View Post
I'm a CFI, so I put others through this for fun
Flying is a skill, practice is required for proficiency. Smart pilots practice!
Be aware of your current level of proficiency, so you don't violate the prime directive: don't do anything dumb!
Don't do anything dumb. Sometimes, that's a bit hard to know, a priori.

Which leads to one of my favorite (and most profound) sayings:

"Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment"

Yes, don't violate the prime directive (if you can).

Crosswinds are fun, btw! ... and be careful out there.
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  #24  
Old 03-31-2014, 09:13 PM
luddite42 luddite42 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred.Stucklen View Post
But all that practice really became usefull one day when I did a GPS-27 approach into KeyWest with a 48 knot G54 90* cross wind, in the dark, in the rain, in an RV-6A (with the big rudder). The approach was sideways all the way into the flair, then just at the stall point, a burst of power and full left rudder. The result was a "plop" onto the runway with no sideloads, and no bounce! After two other commuter go-arounds, they closed the airport! So definately practice.....
I think a previous poster was curious how you could have been at the "stall point" in a 48-54 KT direct x-wind when even if you were crabbed 90 degrees to the runway, aligned directly into the wind at the "stall point" (43 KTS for a 6A), you would be flying backwards across the runway. The airplane would not be tracking the runway. I think either the description of your touchdown speed, or the wind speed and/or direction are a bit off.

Last edited by luddite42 : 03-31-2014 at 09:19 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-31-2014, 10:06 PM
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Fred.Stucklen Fred.Stucklen is offline
 
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Default X wind landings

Why would anyone practice hovering at low altitudes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by walkman View Post
Please be careful. I lost a very good friend doing this in a Cub. It doesn't take much of a burble to stall one wing, and at low altitude there's little time to recover before you make a smokin' hole in the ground.
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  #26  
Old 03-31-2014, 10:15 PM
Frank Smidler Frank Smidler is offline
 
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Talking Stupid is as stupid does

Last fall on a Saturday members of our EAA chapter were to fly out for lunch. The winds were 22G28 directly from the west. Rather than call and find out if it was still on my son Derek and I took off from 2WI6's, a N/S runway and headed to the meet up at Morey field on the West side of Madison. Landing there on 28 was no issue as it was directly into the wind. No one from our chapter was there though because the flyout was cancelled due to the winds. However there was an RV-7 that had just landed, the pilot and passanger were heading to the Wisconsin football game to cheer on the opponent. During a short conversation the RV-7 pilot stated that he decided to land at Morey rather than at the larger Truax field on the East side because the best runway option at Truax was 32, a 5800 x 150 runway that would have had a 50 degree crosswind. It made me think as we returned to 2WI6 for a landing on 36 that maybe I should have given more thought before flying in and out of a small grass strip with a strong, gusty crosswind..........I could not have made a better crosswind landing. Practice on and fly when others don't.
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Last edited by Frank Smidler : 03-31-2014 at 10:17 PM.
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  #27  
Old 03-31-2014, 10:25 PM
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Fred.Stucklen Fred.Stucklen is offline
 
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Default X Wind landings

I guess my use of "Stall" might be inaccurate in somebody else?s terms. Relative to my forward movement in alignment with the centerline, I was probably at a 30* or more crab (certainly not a 90* crab as you stated). (Do the math an figure out the actual angle.) My indicated airspeed (the speed at which the air is moving over the wings) was at the stall point (58 knots indicated) when the left rudder, power application occurred, with the result being that the aircraft settled to the runway and was aligned with the runway. I do remember that we didn't use much runway, and that when we got out of the aircraft our carry-on bags were blown across the ramp (because of the windy conditions).
I strongly suggest learning to properly execute and the continuous practice of cross wind landings. You should know your limits, and the aircrafts limits and always be able to go to those limits.
Even if that means that you fly in those conditions to remind yourself why you don't fly in those conditions.......


Quote:
Originally Posted by luddite42 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred.Stucklen
But all that practice really became usefull one day when I did a GPS-27 approach into KeyWest with a 48 knot G54 90* cross wind, in the dark, in the rain, in an RV-6A (with the big rudder). The approach was sideways all the way into the flair, then just at the stall point, a burst of power and full left rudder. The result was a "plop" onto the runway with no sideloads, and no bounce! After two other commuter go-arounds, they closed the airport! So definately practice.....

I think a previous poster was curious how you could have been at the "stall point" in a 48-54 KT direct x-wind when even if you were crabbed 90 degrees to the runway, aligned directly into the wind at the "stall point" (43 KTS for a 6A), you would be flying backwards across the runway. The airplane would not be tracking the runway. I think either the description of your touchdown speed, or the wind speed and/or direction are a bit off.
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  #28  
Old 04-01-2014, 08:05 AM
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Alan Carroll Alan Carroll is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred.Stucklen View Post
I guess my use of "Stall" might be inaccurate in somebody else?s terms. Relative to my forward movement in alignment with the centerline, I was probably at a 30* or more crab (certainly not a 90* crab as you stated). (Do the math an figure out the actual angle.) My indicated airspeed (the speed at which the air is moving over the wings) was at the stall point (58 knots indicated) when the left rudder, power application occurred, with the result being that the aircraft settled to the runway and was aligned with the runway.

If I do the trigonometry assuming a 48 to 54 kt crosswind blowing at 90 degrees, and an indicated speed of 58 kt, I get 56 to 66 degrees as the required crab angle. Not quite 90, but I imagine you had a better view of the FBO than of the centerline?

Just a little too sporty for my taste!
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  #29  
Old 04-01-2014, 08:59 AM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is offline
 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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I was fortunate enough to have a 90deg crosswind which was right at the aircraft's limits. The rudder was pegged. Lateral drift due to slight gusts was corrected for with power (p-factor having the same effect as additional rudder input). Put the airplane down without trouble. That was a fantastic confidence-booster, and a very good data point to add to the "big book of knowledge".

I could have used the intersecting runway if, after a couple of tries, I learned I wasn't able to handle the crosswind. This was a learning opportunity I didn't want to pass up!
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  #30  
Old 04-01-2014, 11:11 AM
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Low Pass Low Pass is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred.Stucklen View Post
Why would anyone practice hovering at low altitudes?
I called it landing with very low ground speed. One of the main reasons one own's a Cub (or similar plane). If you can't do this (in steady state wind conditions) you shouldn't be flying the Cub. (And technically, you can't fly a small plane like this where you have zero roll. But you can get close).

Now, with winds high enough to have zero or close to that landing roll, you won't be taxiing anywhere but forward.

Last edited by Low Pass : 04-01-2014 at 11:13 AM.
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