Becoming an A&P

[Blastr42]

I'm interested in being able to do all my own work on my aircraft, including the annual condition inspection (I was not the original builder). How hard is it to become an A&P? It seems like half the people in aviation are A&Ps! I am a full time engineer and have thought about becoming a light sport mechanic, but I would rather go to the higher rating if that is a "not insane" idea. What are the ways to become an A&P? What is the least time intensive? Am I just screwed in my desire?

Thanks a bunch,
Jeff

[osxuser]

Lots of time involved. Either 1900+hours at a 147 school or 3 years in an apprentance type position. You might want to consider the advantages of doing the maintenance yourself, and having an A&P do you condition inspections. Most people in experimental aviation would argue that you can do all you own maintenance on the RV, and just need the condition inspection done by an A&P. Others might argue that you should at least have an A&P inspect and sign off major work done. I fall into the later category, but I'm biased since I am an A&P. Either way you can do the majority of the work. Just make sure either way it gets logged!

[cytoxin]

went to a two year school 40hrs a week. some unrealted stuff in there such as basic acedemics.at night would have taken 4 years.

[Low Pass]

Chiming in...

No A&P required to do normal maintenance work on an experimental. See 14 CFR 43.1 (b), "This part does not apply to any aircraft for which an experimental airworthiness certificate has been issued, unless a different kind of airworthiness certificate had previously been issued for that aircraft."

Now, you start tearing into a major alteration without an A&P or Repairman certificate, and you will probably have a problem with the FSDO when you try to get your operating limitations worked out. And of course, if you don't know what you're doing, don't do it!

Couple of additional points to those already posted. Can go to school, work under an A&P, OR get the endorsement from the FSDO (FAA) using your experience building your experimental. Has to meet some time requirements, etc., and your not guaranteed to get the endorsement. But it is possible. I got an airframe endorsement from the FSDO after showing that I built my plane. Tried to squeeze a powerplant endorsement out of them since I overhauled my own engine, but I think they just felt that was being too generous and balked.

[Blastr42]

So how do you get an endorsement from the FSDO? I suppose you still have to take the tests, right? If there is a possiblity that I can use construction experience/time that I work on LSAs after I get my sport mechanic certificate to get my A&P certificate, then I'll definitely try for it. Do you have any suggestions for the best way to work that kind of (evil) scheme?

(everything's better when it has an evil scheme

Jeff

[Low Pass]

Originally Posted by Blastr42

So how do you get an endorsement from the FSDO? I suppose you still have to take the tests, right? If there is a possiblity that I can use construction experience/time that I work on LSAs after I get my sport mechanic certificate to get my A&P certificate, then I'll definitely try for it. Do you have any suggestions for the best way to work that kind of (evil) scheme? Jeff

Made an appointment with a maintenance guy at the Houston FSDO. Brought in a completed 8610 (I think it was) and my building records. They thumbed through my stuff and asked a few questions. Signed my form for airframe only.

As for the tests, that's up to you after you get the endorsement.

As for your evil plan with the LSA, it might work. Gotta find a reasonable/knowledgable person at the FSDO to work with. What I've learned is that not all are very familiar with the experimental world and will just say "no" without really knowing.

[fixnflyguy]

This topic is of a nature to cause much desparity in opinions. The basics are fairly simple, that being ,an A&P is a certificate issued to an individual by the US government that allows one to perform various degrees of maintenance on a wide spectrum of aircraft. Once issued, it must be used in a safe and confident manner, as the actions performed under it ultimately could result in injury or death to others. The result of such,can and have resulted in severe federal penalties, I.E. jail, ect. I realize most interested in this post probably do not consider the liabilities of others in obtaining an simple A&P, but I can tell you as a 27 year holder of an A&P/IA, it is a reality. I have, and will again, write letters of recomendation to the FAA for certain individuals to be considered candidates for testing , however, I then also become liable for the required oversight of required hands on work qualifying the individual. The FAA is becoming increasingly weary of these approvals, as their A&P requirements become more demanding.I encourage anyone seeking the short-cut approach spend some time with a competent A&P/IA before diving in. There are plenty of A&P's that will do assisted maintenance.... What you dont learn is what will hurt you most.

[Low Pass]

Originally Posted by fixnflyguy

The FAA is becoming increasingly weary of these approvals, as their A&P requirements become more demanding.I encourage anyone seeking the short-cut approach spend some time with a competent A&P/IA before diving in. There are plenty of A&P's that will do assisted maintenance.... What you dont learn is what will hurt you most.

I'll stretch a little and assume you may mean using my 39 months of building an RV and overhauling my engine as grounds for petitioning the FAA for the aircraft mechanic's endorsement is a short-cut approach. Perhaps I should have mentioned that I worked almost weekly with a 40 year A&P/IA, commercial pilot, retired NASA engineer. He personally referred me to a similarly qualified FAA employee at the FSDO, who had previously inspected and issued my airworthiness certificate, for review of my mechanic's endorsement request.

The method I used to acquire an endorsement was exactly as allowed by the FAA, which, to me, makes it just as valid as any other means for acquiring an endorsement.

I do understand and appreciate your point about liability. As a 20 yr commercial pilot and cfii/mei and 18 yr professional engineer, I too appreciate the significance of professional liability, signing log books and cutting pilots loose to go fly around alone with their wife and kids. It's very serious business, indeed.

[RV505]

Originally Posted by Low Pass

I'll stretch a little and assume you may mean using my 39 months of building an RV and overhauling my engine as grounds for petitioning the FAA for the aircraft mechanic's endorsement is a short-cut approach. Perhaps I should have mentioned that I worked almost weekly with a 40 year A&P/IA, commercial pilot, retired NASA engineer. He personally referred me to a similarly qualified FAA employee at the FSDO, who had previously inspected and issued my airworthiness certificate, for review of my mechanic's endorsement request.

The method I used to acquire an endorsement was exactly as allowed by the FAA, which, to me, makes it just as valid as any other means for acquiring an endorsement.

I do understand and appreciate your point about liability. As a 20 yr commercial pilot and cfii/mei and 18 yr professional engineer, I too appreciate the significance of professional liability, signing log books and cutting pilots loose to go fly around alone with their wife and kids. It's very serious business, indeed.

The whole A&P program is becoming a joke

[pat]

WOW to think one could qualify for the AP tests after building one airplane over a span of months equal to or greater than experience required by the FAA is amazing. experience workin on one plane, one doesnt know what they dont know, ya know. To be honest it does let a little wind out of my sails when I hear of this because during my apprenticeship we needed time documented on singles, twins, turboprobs, jets, all systems including hydraulics, elec, air, nitrogen,o2, etc... all engines assoc with each. having said all that... I have enough to worry about so to all I say go for it but work with a very competent IA because you will miss something.