Tool Preferences

[PilotRPI]

I am looking into some tool options and would like some opinions. It looks like I will be getting some parts from Cleaveland, and some from Avery. I plan on taking a sheet metal class in the near future too, so hopefully I can get some experience with these before diving in:

Fluting Pliers & Hand Seamer:
- Do you prefer the vise-grip style or the offset plier style (non-locking)

Rivet Squeezer:
- I plan on upgrading to a pneumatic squeezer. If I have the pneumatic, is there any reason for a manual squeezer as well?

Drill Speed:
- I want to upgrade to a Sioux drill. Which is better for this type of work, the 3600 rpm or the 6000 rpm?

Squeezer yokes:
- If I go with the Avery pneumatic squeezer, are the yokes compatible with the avery manual squeezer? Also, are the avery yokes usable with the Cleaveland main squeeze and Cleaveland pneumatic?

Deburring:
- Are the Avery speed deburring tool and the double edge deburring tool worth it?

Thanks guys & gals!

Jesse

[TShort]

I like my offset / non locking seamers the best.

I don't have a hand squeezer (pneumatic only), but at times have wished I did. I've gotten by without it so far.

The Avery speed deburring tool is my go-to tool for deburring holes, and for countersinking for NAS1097 rivets for nutplates.

I have this edge deburring tool:

http://www.yardstore.com/browse.cfm/4,4389.html

Works great, along with a set of these files:

http://www.cleavelandtool.com/Black-.../#.UxtAN0JdUbw

I never liked using files much until I got those; now I can finish the edge of a sheet in no time using a combo of the files and the edge deburring tool.

[SMO]

Responses embedded below

Originally Posted by PilotRPI

I am looking into some tool options and would like some opinions. It looks like I will be getting some parts from Cleaveland, and some from Avery. I plan on taking a sheet metal class in the near future too, so hopefully I can get some experience with these before diving in:

Fluting Pliers & Hand Seamer:
- Do you prefer the vise-grip style or the offset plier style (non-locking) Didn't have to do much fluting, have the non-locking hand seamer and it works fine, again not used much

Rivet Squeezer:
- I plan on upgrading to a pneumatic squeezer. If I have the pneumatic, is there any reason for a manual squeezer as well? I have both and use them both, although the pneumatic gets 90% of the work. The manual squeezer is a bit easier to control. I have the Main Squeeze.

Drill Speed:
- I want to upgrade to a Sioux drill. Which is better for this type of work, the 3600 rpm or the 6000 rpm? I have a ~3000 RPM air drill, plenty fast enough but never worked with a faster one.

Squeezer yokes:
- If I go with the Avery pneumatic squeezer, are the yokes compatible with the avery manual squeezer? Also, are the avery yokes usable with the Cleaveland main squeeze and Cleaveland pneumatic? The yokes are interchangeable between the Main Squeeze and the pneumatic, don't know for sure about the Avery yokes but I would expect them to be standard.

Deburring:
- Are the Avery speed deburring tool and the double edge deburring tool worth it? I only use the speed deburring tool with the 3 flutes

Thanks guys & gals!

Jesse

[David Paule]

Drills - either are fine. One of the Sioux drills has a reversing feature that's occasionally handy. I have three drills (one borrowed, one not Sioux) and use them all the time: one for #40, one for #30, the third for whatever I need. Saves a lot of time.

Squeezer - Have a borrowed manual one that I never use. The pneumatic one gets most of the work, with the frame getting the rest for dimpling and the rivet gun getting the rest for riveting.

Yokes - I've got the 4" and the longeron yoke and a no-hole one would be useful, too, but I haven't one (yet).

Hand seamer - The Matco S-3 is the one to get. They have other lengths that might also be useful.

Deburring - Get a cordless Black and Decker screw driver from Wal-Mart. Get a one-hole cutter for it, I forget from who, sorry. This makes a wonderfully reliable and easy deburring tool for holes. You'll also need other devices for the back sides of hard-to-get things but I can't help you with that.

For flat edges, I like a long Vixen file, a medium-length fine mill file, and some round files, very fine, as necessary.

I hardly ever use a Scotchbrite drum and don't own a grinder with one of those messy, fling-it-around Scotchbrite wheels.

Dave
RV-3B, still on wings

Fluting pliers - get one that's narrow, The borrowed one I have is a vice-grip type and works a charm.

[chaskuss]

Jesse,
I prefer the Non vise grip style fluting pliers with plastic inserts. These do not mar the aluminum. These are made by Aircraft Tool. See

http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/de...RODUCT_ID=FP10

The offset hand seamers are better. I found that I had to cover the vice grip seamers with duct tape to keep the edges from marring the aluminum sheet. I prefer the Malco seamers. I have both widths. See

http://malcoproducts.com/product/roo...l-jaws-redline

or

http://www.amsisupply.com/graphics/c...ng%20tools.pdf

The Avery yokes fit both the Chicago Pneumatic pneumatic squeezers [and all the clones of them] as well as the Avery hand squeezers. I would suggest you buy the Avery hand squeezers. I just borrowed a friend's pneumatic squeezer tool for the few times where I had a large number of rivets to squeeze.

I also prefer the Cleaveland edge rolling tool to the Avery unit. It's more expensive, but well worth the extra cost. It's easier to use and gives much more consistent results.

The best & fastest way to deburr holes is with a right angle die grinder with a 2" Roloc disc and the blue colored 3M deburring discs. This is how the "pros" deburr. See

http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=5523

http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=15410

http://www.harborfreight.com/air-ang...l#.UxtGqs7px6Y

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-qua...l#.UxtG187px6Y

I prefer the second die grinder shown. It's slightly smaller and I find that having the trigger on top, gets in the way less. FYI, Cleaveland and Harbor Freight also carry the Roloc mandrel and the discs.

http://www.harborfreight.com/complet...l#.UxtH1c7px6Y

The 3" Roloc mandrel and discs are also useful for de-burring the rivet holes on the inside flanges of ribs & bulkheads.

Charlie

[chaskuss]

Originally Posted by David Paule

snipped
Hand seamer - The Matco S-3 is the one to get. They have other lengths that might also be useful. For those who "build to the plans" and don't do any customizing, seamers are not to important. However, for those builders [like me} who love to customize, you "really" want to buy the Malco seamers. All by professional aircraft mechanic buddies use the Malco seamers.

Deburring - Get a cordless Black and Decker screw driver from Wal-Mart. Get a one-hole cutter for it, I forget from who, sorry. This makes a wonderfully reliable and easy deburring tool for holes. You'll also need other devices for the back sides of hard-to-get things but I can't help you with that.
snipped

Dave
RV-3B, still on wings
snipped

Dave,
Did you mean Malco, not Matco? A Google search of Matco S3 turns up nothing. Malco S3 gets results.

Regarding the counter sink tools, Cleaveland makes the "one hole" units you mention. I own these, but found that when used with an air drill [high speed] that I constantly had to stop and clear out the hole, as they get chip bound very easily. See

http://www.cleavelandtool.com/Single.../#.UxtMNM7px6Y

I found that I got the fastest and best results using the old school, 3 flute counter sinks using an electric cordless drill. The knock on these C/S cutters is that they would chatter when used with a pneumatic [high speed] drill. See

http://www.browntool.com/Default.asp...ProductID=3070

Have you had any chip binding issues using the Cleaveland "one hole" countersink tools using the slower cordless electric drill?
Charlie

[Val]

I am a first time builder, pushing hard to go on with my -4. Having said that:

Fluting Pliers & Hand Seamer:
- I prefer the vise-grip style because it requires less strenght to operate ( I have small hands). Vise grip style tend to marr aluminum, though.

Rivet Squeezer:
- I use pneumatic to drive 1/8 rivets (it is difficult for me to maintain proper joke alignement while pressing hard) and use hand squeezer for 3/32 rivets (less heavy and more easy to handle). If I were you I'd take both.

Drill Speed:
- I use a 3600 rpm drill and find it fast enought. I have no experience with faster drill. I found it very usefull to have a slow drill, battery operated, to use countersinking cutter tool and step drill.

Squeezer yokes:
- If I go with the Avery pneumatic squeezer, are the yokes compatible with the avery manual squeezer?
Yes.

Deburring:
- Are the Avery speed deburring tool and the double edge deburring tool worth it?
Speed deburring works great and saves me time. I have not uset double edge deburring tool, much.

My 2 cents.

Enjoy building and Flying.
Val.