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02-28-2014, 09:28 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 312
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Help: Build on or R&R this rivet?
I need some help deciding if this rivet is good enough, or if I should drill it out and replace it. This is the W-413PP inboard aileron hinge bracket, using AN470AD4-11 rivets. The shop heads are a bit small, but the 4-11 rivet was a bit short to start with, although that's what the plans said to use.
Is this head too deformed to provide the proper strength, or is it okay given the thickness of the material here?
Thanks for your input,
Rob
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Rob K
RV-8 N884RA under construction
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02-28-2014, 09:50 AM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,408
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If it fails, will you die??
Will you continue to worry about it, if it is not replaced???
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Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010 
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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02-28-2014, 09:51 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Litchfield Park, AZ
Posts: 1,017
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You have good access now and it's easily removable. If it were me I would remove and replace. If the rivet is a touch to short go with a longer rivet and file away some of the excess to be a X.5 rivet for a better shop head.
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Carlos in Arizona
EAA Chapter 538 www.chapters.eaa.org/eaa538
Wittman Tailwind W8 N53CH (built & sold)
Pazmany PL-1 N2029 (bought & sold)
RV7 - N537TC (reserved & building)
Emp, Wings & Fuse done - working on FWF
"The air is an extremely dangerous, jealous and exacting mistress. Once under the spell most lovers are faithful to the end, which is not always old age." - Winston Churchill
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02-28-2014, 04:43 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 669
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If the question is whether it's strong enough - it appears to be. Building on is certainly one path.
On the other hand, it will never be easier to fix. Even if it's a FUBAR in the attempt, the parts aren't really a big deal to replace. It's probably the way I'd go. There's a thread going on removing rivets - look that over, use a spring loaded center punch, a sharp drill bit, and a slow turning speed to get the head off.
Dan
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RV7A (N7101) - Flying 10/2008
CFI- SE/ME/Inst
A&P
KC2ZEL
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02-28-2014, 05:08 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 668
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I would build on with that one if it were my plane. And in fact I have a few of those scattered around for good measure on my plane?
It's about how much perfection are you striving for? I think any very small increase in strength by replacing it, is offset by the chance of making a mess while drilling it out.
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Andy Karmy
Covington WA
RV-8 - Flying!
RV-9A - sold
Dec 2019 Paid
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02-28-2014, 05:16 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sydney, Aust.
Posts: 820
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If it is strong enough now - and it looks like it is - I would build on. You're more likely to mess up the hole by drilling it out than by living with an already-alright-but-not-quite-perfect rivet.
Somewhere in the manual I read that the strength of even badly deformed and/or cracked rivets were within something like 5% of the strongest "perfect" rivets. Unless you're building a gold lindy candidate or will forever be nagged by it, move on.
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Once you have tasted flight you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return - Leonardo DaVinci
My Flickr gallery: http://www.flickr.com/photos/35521362@N06/
RV-9A - Finished on 10th February 2016 after 4 years, 9 months and 19 days! The 1020th RV-9 flying.
First flight 26th March 2016. Essential specs 145KTAS @ 2400RPM, 8000', 24.2LPH, Initial RoC 1800FPM.
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02-28-2014, 06:03 PM
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unacceptable
Having been a inspector on the Vought 747 production line I would not only rejected that rivet but would have chastised the person trying to pass it off.
43 13 shows proper (and improper) riveting.
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02-28-2014, 06:13 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 3,931
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Tape
If are not using anything to protect the area, may I suggest a strip of black gorilla tape.
It looks like your well into the build so you probably already know. Just a thought.
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Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/03/2019, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
HS SB, empennage, tanks, wings, fuse, working finishing kit
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
Last edited by wirejock : 02-28-2014 at 06:14 PM.
Reason: change text
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02-28-2014, 08:12 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pazmanyflyer
You have good access now and it's easily removable. If it were me I would remove and replace. If the rivet is a touch to short go with a longer rivet and file away some of the excess to be a X.5 rivet for a better shop head.
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+1 I would just replace it. There is a recent post on rivet removal that you might want to read. ( http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...0&postcount=17 ) I just drilled out several rivets today that would "pass" but looked crappy (a technical word). With practice, you can do that without any risk of hole damage. Rivet removal is a skill worth perfecting.
Some are in a place that can not be reached easily and are a super pain to get in and even more out. Those may be candidates for leaving. YMMV.
__________________
Bill
RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
Last edited by BillL : 02-28-2014 at 08:39 PM.
Reason: added link
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03-01-2014, 09:37 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 312
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Done!
Thanks for the advice. I drilled it out this morning and put a new one in its place. Scott's method of removing rivets made this a piece of cake.
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Rob K
RV-8 N884RA under construction
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