Condition Inspection with Discrepancies

[barryrv10]

I am an A&P and trying to figure out if I can sign off a condition inspection with discrepancies that someone else can rectify; along the same line, can one get a ferry permit for an experimental. Thanks Barry

[DanBaier]

I don't think so.

What will govern is the letter of operating limitations - for example, mine says:

(23) Condition inspections must be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records showing the following, or a similarly worded, statement:
"I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on [insert date] in accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to part 43, and was found to be in a condition for safe operation." The entry will include the aircraft's total time-in-service, and the name, signature, certificate number, and type of certificate held by the person performing the inspection. (Emphasis original)

So, it's not the same as an annual inspection in the certified world. Here, the person making the entry is concluding that the aircraft is in a condition for safe operation (or, if not I would think that, simply, no entry is made at all).

I don't know about getting a ferry permit for an experimental - I think the issue might be that with experimentals there is no concept of "airworthiness" as defined.

Dan

[Neal@F14]

Just simply give the owner a list of discrepancies you found and when he fixes those to your satisfaction, then sign off the condition inspection. The owner or whoever fixes the discrepancies is who logs those repair entires into the books.

[Kahuna]

Does the word discrepancy have any special meaning to the FAA or an A&P?
For example, what is considered safe today, may not be safe 50 hours from now. Or 5000 hours from now. Lets say a throttle cable shows signs of heat damage. It may be perfectly safe right now, but may need attention at a later date and perhaps before the next condition inspection. Is that an example of a discrepancy?

[DanBaier]

See FAR 43.11 (a) (5) - http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...363.8&rgn=div8

Dan

[barryrv10]

My idea of a discrepancy is anything that could effect the safe operation of that aircraft now or in the foreseeable future. It is certainly a judgement call and being I usually have no control after the aircraft is signed off, I am pretty conservative. Some squawks can be monitored one way or another, but it takes an active willingness to do so. My criterion is if I would feel comfortable having my family fly in the aircraft.
In the past I have had problems with owners not wanting to follow my suggestions on how to fix or address a problem, such as an AD or SB on a certain part in their aircraft. I know there is a lot of debate about AD's and SB's but they are usually issued because of a problem. I believe the owner should make the decision in that situation, but I cannot sign off an aircraft that has an open AD or SB against any part in that aircraft. If there was a problem with that aircraft because the AD or SB was not complied with, I have not been able to figure out how I could defend myself in court, or worse to someone's widow.
I very much believe it is the owner's responsibility to keep the aircraft in a condition for safe operation and to make the decisions about it's maintenance, but if I am hired to inspect it I have to use my best judgement and sometimes that conflicts with the owner's ideas on how to maintain the aircraft.

[MarkW]

I just watched a Webinar on this from the EAA and Mike Busch.
You can find it in the EAA archives. I believe it is titled "How to fail an Annual."
It was geared for the Certified world but I believe it is the same.
According to Mike Busch this is something that should be done on a regular basis.
Yes it can be signed off as inspected but with discrepencies. A condition Inspection or Annual Inspection is only an inspection.
The original IA or A&P does not even have to re-inspect. Another IA can sign of that particular discrepancy.

To fly with a discrepency would require a ferry permit.

[pierre smith]

We had a ferry permit during phase 1 on our -6A to get it to a radio shop.

Best,

[ifixf15]

§43.11 Content, form, and disposition of records for inspections conducted under parts 91 and 125 and §§135.411(a)(1) and 135.419 of this chapter.

(a) Maintenance record entries. The person approving or disapproving for return to service an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part after any inspection performed in accordance with part 91, 125, §135.411(a)(1), or §135.419 shall make an entry in the maintenance record of that equipment containing the following information:

(1) The type of inspection and a brief description of the extent of the inspection.

(2) The date of the inspection and aircraft total time in service.

(3) The signature, the certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving or disapproving for return to service the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, component part, or portions thereof.

(4) Except for progressive inspections, if the aircraft is found to be airworthy and approved for return to service, the following or a similarly worded statement—“I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with (insert type) inspection and was determined to be in airworthy condition.”

(5) Except for progressive inspections, if the aircraft is not approved for return to service because of needed maintenance, noncompliance with applicable specifications, airworthiness directives, or other approved data, the following or a similarly worded statement—“I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with (insert type) inspection and a list of discrepancies and unairworthy items dated (date) has been provided for the aircraft owner or operator.”

[barryrv10]

Part 43 does not apply to E-AB aircraft