Laws regarding flight instruction in a new build

[diamond]

What are the laws regarding earning a PPL in a new built plane with no hours on it?

[aerhed]

Can't be done. Phase one hours must be flown off with just one occupant. After that you just need a willing instructor.

[diamond]

Does this apply to LSA built RV 12 also?

[rmartingt]

Originally Posted by diamond

Does this apply to LSA built RV 12 also?

Yes. Until your Phase I test period is flown off (however long it is), only one person is permitted on board the aircraft. This may be changing to some extent but we do not know for sure. I am certain, however, that flight instruction of a new/student pilot will still not be allowed during the test period. Flight test is definitely not the time to be learning to fly.

[KatieB]

The required solo flight test time for an E-LSA RV-12 is 5 hours. However, what's legal is not always what's smart. You might have a hard time finding a good CFI willing to fly in an airplane that new. Five hours is not much time to work out all the bugs in a new kitplane. As mentioned before, mixing flight testing with flight training, especially with an instructor with low time-in-type, is a dangerous combination.

Notice I said "good" CFI-- there are lots of young CFIs out there eager to fly anything, but they don't always have the best judgment or teaching skill. Or they don't have the experience and ability to effectively teach in your particular airplane and handle it if something goes wrong. The ideal situation is to have a CFI with lots of experience flying your type of airplane, and is also willing to do the flight testing for you solo until it's legal and safe to train in. If I were you, I'd check with your local EAA chapter to see if there's anyone like that nearby.

[craigvince]

Originally Posted by diamond

Does this apply to LSA built RV 12 also?

Unless it is an S-LSA. That is considered a factory-built plane and can be flown single or dual as soon as you buy it. It can also be used for commercial flight instruction, unlike the E-LSA or EAB.

[Bavafa]

I could be wrong on this but my understanding has been that a second/additional ?crew? are allowed during phase one if the safe operation of the plane requires it. A ?flight instructor? of course does not meet such definition and in the context of a VANS RV, none of their kit plane require more than one crew to operate unless it is made in such way that requires a second crew.

[Rootski]

Originally Posted by KatieB

The required solo flight test time for an E-LSA RV-12 is 5 hours. However, what's legal is not always what's smart. You might have a hard time finding a good CFI willing to fly in an airplane that new. Five hours is not much time to work out all the bugs in a new kitplane. As mentioned before, mixing flight testing with flight training, especially with an instructor with low time-in-type, is a dangerous combination.

Notice I said "good" CFI-- there are lots of young CFIs out there eager to fly anything, but they don't always have the best judgment or teaching skill. Or they don't have the experience and ability to effectively teach in your particular airplane and handle it if something goes wrong. The ideal situation is to have a CFI with lots of experience flying your type of airplane, and is also willing to do the flight testing for you solo until it's legal and safe to train in. If I were you, I'd check with your local EAA chapter to see if there's anyone like that nearby.

Seconded. A HUGE part of learning to fly, especially when it comes to emergency procedures, is understanding how the systems interact. And that's knowledge that, if you were training during testing, not even your instructor would have at a point where the odds of an ACTUAL emergency are at their highest.

[Mel]

Originally Posted by Bavafa

I could be wrong on this but my understanding has been that a second/additional ?crew? are allowed during phase one if the safe operation of the plane requires it. A ?flight instructor? of course does not meet such definition and in the context of a VANS RV, none of their kit plane require more than one crew to operate unless it is made in such way that requires a second crew.

Yes, you are wrong. The operating limitations are very specific about this.
A second occupant is only "legal" during phase I if the additional person is "required crew". There is no "additional required crew" in these type aircraft.

There have been occasions where a FSDO guy has "OKed" an additional person, but FAA Legal has stated otherwise and a local FSDO inspector does not have the authority to override FAA Legal.

[jclark]

Originally Posted by Bavafa

I could be wrong on this but my understanding has been that a second/additional ?crew? are allowed during phase one if the safe operation of the plane requires it. A ?flight instructor? of course does not meet such definition and in the context of a VANS RV, none of their kit plane require more than one crew to operate unless it is made in such way that requires a second crew.

I am probably WRONG on this but it is an area where I am opinionated.

If we "wink, wink, nod", "required crew" a pilot/person in an RV that is a SINGLE PILOT plane, at some time I would suspect one could get oneself caught with the REQUIREMENT to have the "required crew" for EVERY FLIGHT.

The rule of thumb that I use in discussions is "the FAA does not care much if you go kill yourself but the care a WHOLE LOT if you go and do something that runs the risk of killing someone else. The more "souls on board" during the highest risk period the more likely additional deaths.

The best solution (IN MY OPINION) is to get the necessary transition training if you are not "up to snuff".

Just one person's opinion. You are entitled to yours,

James