Honda Piston Aircraft Engine

[rv6ejguy]

Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot

I seriously doubt it, proof please.

It would be heavy

Radiator would produce more cooling drag (aka slower) than air-cooled engine

The "reported" HP would never make it to the prop (HP rating is near red line and engine would last an afternoon).

Now flame me please, asbesto underware on, would like to test.

Nope, not gonna start this one again George, sorry to disappoint. Too busy right now moving airplanes and my business. Yep, the mighty Subie RV10 is out at the hangar finally.

I love the quote by Captain Avgas. This is so true.

[TSwezey]

Originally Posted by rv6ejguy

Nope, not gonna start this one again George, sorry to disappoint. Too busy right now moving airplanes and my business. Yep, the mighty Subie RV10 is out at the hangar finally.

I love the quote by Captain Avgas. This is so true.

Congrats! Wings on yet?

[Bob Axsom]

Honda has probably completed their research and have a fully developed system that they could production but there is no market that justifies their going forward with it. Japan is pretty much locked into the big scale production mode of operations since the big scale emergence in the 70s. I just returned from China this week and the potential is much greater there for many reasons. The labor force is unlimited and the potential for internal consumption is very large. They have a strong fear of security that pretty much eliminates private flight but if that barrier is breached the demand would be awesome. While we were touring the Ming Tombs I saw an ultralight passing over the the Sacred Way many times on a regular basis. I learned that the pilot was giving rides from a nearby lake - barnstorming.

Bob Axsom

[rv6ejguy]

Originally Posted by TSwezey

Congrats! Wings on yet?

Wings won't be going on for many months as there is not enough room in the present hangar. The new hangar is 6 months behind schedule unfortunately. It is good to have it all out at the airport safe and sound though. I've had bad dreams about something getting crumpled up during this nervous phase. Many thanks to friend Bill Baxter for the use of his truck and trailer.

I intend to enjoy???? myself over the next few months doing wiring, pinhole filling and sanding.

[TSwezey]

Originally Posted by rv6ejguy

Wings won't be going on for many months as there is not enough room in the present hangar. The new hangar is 6 months behind schedule unfortunately. It is good to have it all out at the airport safe and sound though. I've had bad dreams about something getting crumpled up during this nervous phase. Many thanks to friend Bill Baxter for the use of his truck and trailer.

I intend to enjoy???? myself over the next few months doing wiring, pinhole filling and sanding.

I am envious!

[Rotary10-RV]

Guys,
If I remember correctly the Honda piston engine test bed was 1. single overhead cam. 2. Combined air-water cooled. 3.Large displacement and direct drive. The engine looked like a giant Rotax 912 with Honda on it. The likelyhood is that liability was the final nail in the coffin. The other was the possibility of sales volume. Honda is used to selling thousands of engines PER MONTH.

"Wow! What a quarter! The General Aviation Manufacturers? Association just reported a total of 917 airplanes delivered in the second quarter of 2005. In terms of deliveries, that?s the strongest second quarter this industry has experienced since 1982. That?s right: The strongest second quarter for deliveries in 23 years! Pretty good, huh?"

This is the GAMA comments, reported WITH GUSTO, on a 3 month period. Why would Honda want any part of such a miniscule market? There is just no return, especially with the liability angle.

To all the alternate engine naysayers, I have nothing against Lycs or Contis, I just maintain that they should cost 10-15k. Something that the anti-car-engine guys should think about is WHY can anyone build anything even close to the price or output (of a "standard") when a first article usually costs 4-5 times what a production engine, or production anything costs. Two or three times I have been very close to selling EVERYTHING aircraft and engine as I don't think I can afford the cost of construction reguardless of engine choice. I continue to progress slowly despite being very enthuastic about flying and doing something different. We need to bring more people into GA or darned few people will be interested in flying at all. The suggestions we need are, "how to do it safely," and, "how to control the cost of building." No your engine is do-do or "I would never use anything like that." These arguements will not get 1 more plane in the air. Nor will their arguements help someone put a decent package together. If like David Dornier you complete a plane and don't get enough out of it to satisfy you, as the owner of the repairmans certificate you can CHANGE IT! The more we keep this an exclusive club the easier we are to wipe out by government edict. I rarely even bother to look in here anymore since the names change but the arguements remain the same. FWIW
Bill Jepson

[Captain Avgas]

Originally Posted by Rotary10-RV

I rarely even bother to look in here anymore since the names change but the arguements remain the same. FWIW
Bill Jepson

Maybe that says something about the universal validity of the arguments.

[dlomheim]

Originally Posted by Captain Avgas

Maybe that says something about the universal validity of the arguments.

What argument? The bottom line is that there are RV builders installing alternative engines, and this list can (and should) be a benefit to them as they progress with their installations and flight testing. Issues such as cooling / cooling drag improvements are something anyone doing an alternative engine install will need to work out inorder to optimize their installation, and it is this type of information that I look for when perusing this list. I personally care nothing about the silly arguing which originates from those whose time would be better spent on the "traditional engine" list (since that is what they fly behind). For those installing and flying behind alternative engines, I hope you all will continue to post information to this list regarding your trials / tribulations and progress, etc. so we all can continue improve our installations; and simply ignore the pointless sparing from those not involved in this undertaking.

Doug Lomheim
RV-9A; 13B FWF

[L.Adamson]

Originally Posted by dlomheim

I personally care nothing about the silly arguing which originates from those whose time would be better spent on the "traditional engine" list (since that is what they fly behind). For those installing and flying behind alternative engines, I hope you all will continue to post information to this list regarding your trials / tribulations and progress, etc. so we all can continue improve our installations; and simply ignore the pointless sparing from those not involved in this undertaking.

I'm open minded, but when I see my traditional engine plane flying, as well as a friends flying................. while another acquaintance has about three minutes of flight due to tweaks and continuing over-heating problems; it makes you wonder. Unlike the alternative engine plane, my plane isn't covered with louvers & doors on the lower cowl either. The problem is; is that this scenario isn't isolated. It appears to get played out, quite often across the builders community.
My decision for Lyc, or clone has been strongly reinforced...........lately.

L.Adamson --- RV6A

[rv6ejguy]

Originally Posted by L.Adamson

I'm open minded, but when I see my traditional engine plane flying, as well as a friends flying................. while another acquaintance has about three minutes of flight due to tweaks and continuing over-heating problems; it makes you wonder. Unlike the alternative engine plane, my plane isn't covered with louvers & doors on the lower cowl either. The problem is; is that this scenario isn't isolated. It appears to get played out, quite often across the builders community.
My decision for Lyc, or clone has been strongly reinforced...........lately.

L.Adamson --- RV6A

Sounds like your friend could use a hand. Feel free to have him contact me if I can offer any assistance to help get his problems solved. 3 minutes of flight can't be much fun. This stuff takes perseverance sometimes. My friend's Subie turbo Glastar has worked quite well from day one and he has about 60 hours on it now after 6 months. He is going to revise the cooling system slightly as it is not quite enough on hot days but the rest has been trouble free.

We might have other things to worry about but not things like ECI cylinder ADs or cracking IO-470 crankcases that two other friends with traditional engines talked about last weekend at the airport. Our fixes cost a few hundred $, theirs were a lot more costly.

Each engine installation has it drawbacks, we just need to get all the technical issues right to enjoy the flying part. We all want to get our engines working as well as your Lycoming.

Even the factories don't get it all right the first time as we have seen over and over again.