GNS 480 VS GTN 650

[komodo58]

Allo fellow pilots
I want to enter in the wonderfull word of IFR GPS WASS. At this time I have a basic IFR NAV/COM/ILS with DME and NDB. As time passing, there is more and more GPS route, less Victor airways and GPS LNAV/VNAV approch.
To get into it, I need GI106A GPS/NAV indicator and a good audio panel.
That bring me around 10k$ min and 20k$ and more ...without any autopilot.

I would like your opinion of others IFR pilots with GNS 480 that we can get for about 5k$ and the new GTN 560 for 10k$ for those who experience both.
At this time I am not interested into used GNS 430 or 530 as the price are very
close to the GTN 650.

Martin

[Brantel]

The 480 is apparently a great box because all that have em seem to love them. They have a few features that not much if anything else have these days.

BUT

They are obsolete and have been for many years now. I would be worried about repairs in the future. Most of them that are out there on the used market most likely have a ton of hours on them. Something to consider.

You need to get a formal quote for the GTN650. Typically they go for less than the price you mentioned.

The GTN is also an amazing box. All new hardware and it will be around a long time.

Look at some of the EFIS systems out there that can interface with these units. Sometimes you can get a whole EFIS for close to the price of a stand alone CDI. Add in some of the built in auto pilot's and you got yourself a heck of a low priced solution there. (I see you are in Canada. I have no idea what the rules are up there about this)

Audio panels are great but not absolutely required in our small planes. A couple switches can suffice for those on a super tight budget. There are a couple experimental audio panels on the market that are great units at a reasonable price.

[BobTurner]

+1 on everything Brantel just said.

[RV7Guy]

The 400 series is going away. Even though support will be there. The GTN series can be had from much less than $10k. Check with Stein or Tim at Approach. Lots of resources.

I've got quite a bit of time flying touch screen units and they are very nice to use. Those who talk about use in turbulence just haven't used them. Heck, even dial stuff is tough in turbulence.

You might even consider the 750 with remote mounted audio panel and transponder. Ultimately saves panel space.

I went with the 750, SL40, and two Advanced Flight 5500 Touch screens for my new 7. The panel looks great, uncluttered and extremely functional.

[rv888r]

Martin, Like almost all who have flown the 480 in hard IFR /busy airspace with a quick airplane, I have very few complaints. It's combination of simplicity and capability is very hard to beat. Between my RV8 and MU2 I fly both with 480s I can only think of a few minor complaints:

- No altitudes displayed on map for class bravo/charlie airspace (have to hit nearest, then airspace and know segment to get).
- Small screen
- No functionality for vnav/top of descent/alt restrictions.
- Electronic checklist entry cumbersome

With that said, I've had great support from the Oregon/old UPSAT folks.

While definately obsolete, I understand that one more(and final) major software update is in the works that will include full ads-b compliance and some new interface capabilites.

I am biased for sure and I only have a few dozen hours with a 530w, but I would not trade my 480 for the 530 without question.

[komodo58]

I've used the sim of both gns 480 & gtn 650/750.
GTN is great but it seam to me that both do the job for IFR flying.
Even the GNS has the capabiliy built an unpublish hold very easily but the GTN doesn't.
I have a certify airplane, so I am restrited to only garmin product with fit for all STC.
The other option will br to sell the plane and buy an RV6 with glass panel and auto pilot for a fraction of the price for a certify airplane.

[RV10inOz]

Go the GTN. Keep the NAV/COM, I assume an SL30, and perhaps ditch the ADF and DME.

My 2c worth.

[Rick_A]

Originally Posted by rv888r

... only think of a few minor complaints:

- No altitudes displayed on map for class bravo/charlie airspace (have to hit nearest, then airspace and know segment to get).
- Small screen
- No functionality for vnav/top of descent/alt restrictions.
- Electronic checklist entry cumbersome

With that said, I've had great support from the Oregon/old UPSAT folks.

While definately obsolete, I understand that one more(and final) major software update is in the works that will include full ads-b compliance and some new interface capabilites.

I am biased for sure and I only have a few dozen hours with a 530w, but I would not trade my 480 for the 530 without question.

I love my 480 but I don't think I would buy one now (unless mine went TU and I needed a replacement).

As far as the minor complaints noted above, my 480 is used as my primary GPS input into my GRT EFIS. The combination addresses complaints 1,2 & 3. I also have a Garmin 795 which gives the electronic checklist but I rarely use it. I like paper checklists.

I sure hope the software update for ADSB comes soon. I recently installed a GDL 39R for ADSB In. I'll update my 330 to a 330ES as soon as the 480 software is available.

[AK4x4]

If you read the AIM 5-4-5 section k or so ,if memory serves, you will find that for LP, LPV, and LNAV operations "WAAS navigation equipment must be approved in accordance with the requirements specified in TSO-C145b or TSO-C146b and installed in accordance with Advisory Circular AC 20-138." The 430, 530, and 480 do not meet this criteria and have limited legal usefulness. The 430W/530W and all the GTN series are compliant. Garmin did not make the 480, UPS AT did, and they have not been providing software updates for sometime. On the ADS-B front Garmin has promised a software "patch" for the 430W/530W. I have not heard of any firm plans to offer anything for the 430, 530, or 480. Good luck, Russ
P.S If you have a 430 or 530, Garmin will upgrade it to a 430W or 530W for around $2900ish last I checked.

[Rick_A]

According to the Garmin website, the 480 meets TSO C146a. The 480 has always support LPV and LNAV approaches.

The 480 was the first certified WAAS GPS. Apollo/UPS AT had it long before Garmin.

Looking in the 480 Pilot Manual, the supported GPS approaches are LPV,LNAV/VNAV, LNAV+V and LNAV with Advisory Vertical Guidance.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/in-t.../prod6433.html