Convert to IFR

[Bwing96]

Would like to get my instrument rating and have done searches and read so much on here until I'm really confused now about what to add or not add. Not wanting to break the bank, get a second job or second mortgage, just wanting enough to get my rating but yet be able to upgrade later on.

Not planning on doing any hard ifr and I understand all the dicussions about that. Would like to get my rating then add A/P and GPS. I know someone here has already done this on the cheap. Thought about selling this one but really like my plane and haven't seen another t/w model with a good panel that isn't $$$$$$$$$$$$

I'm not a builder nor do I know anything about wiring either.

[IMG][/IMG]

[rleffler]

Originally Posted by Bwing96

Would like to get my instrument rating and have done searches and read so much on here until I'm really confused now about what to add or not add. Not wanting to break the bank, get a second job or second mortgage, just wanting enough to get my rating but yet be able to upgrade later on.

Not planning on doing any hard ifr and I understand all the dicussions about that. Would like to get my rating then add A/P and GPS. I know someone here has already done this on the cheap. Thought about selling this one but really like my plane and haven't seen another t/w model with a good panel that isn't $$$$$$$$$$$$

I'm not a builder nor do I know anything about wiring either.

I commend you for wanting to get your IFR rating. I'm a firm believer that it helps to makes us better pilots even if we don't fly IFR.

Your opportunity is that you have to fly three different approaches. I can't tell if you have a Nav radio or not, but if you do, it doesn't appear like you have a CDI.

A basic Nav radio with a CDI will allow you fly an ILS or VOR approach, although some VOR approaches,you'll feel like a one arm wallpaper hanger if you only have one VOR. Then you have to figure out what else you need for a third approach.

NDBs are being discontinued so, it doesn't make sense to install one.

Your Garmin GPS can't be used for IFR.

A Garmin GNS 430W is probably the least expensive way to get a Nav radio and IFR certified GPS. Although, I would recommend a Garmin GTN650. It's more money, but it's going to have a longer useful life and higher resale value compared to the 430w.

You are also going. To have to re-arrange your panel to fit a CDI. Since you state that you are going to need some help, I would recommend giving SteinAir or Aerotronics a call for assistance.

You will also need a heated pitot, if you don't have one already. You don't want to be flying in clouds this time of year without one.

I don't know your definition of cheap, but I suspect $15-$20k isn't it. Like I said, Stein or Jed at SteinAir or Jason at Aerotronics can give you a better estimate.

[Mike D]

Having just done this....
(Edit) and thinking about it a little more....
You will need a AI, DME, and a CDI. The cheapest way to do this would be an EFIS and a GNS 430W or GNS480.
Sorry. This may not be what you want to hear, but it is what it is.

Yeah, you could go with an older and cheaper certified GPS, but it won't talk with the EFIS as easily and you will need to add announciator a to make it legal. Flight instructors and examiners like legal.

------ old response below-----

You have an easy-ish, cheap-ish way and the more expensive but better way.

You will need some form of attitude referance. You could add a steam artificial horizon, change your kx125 for a kx155, and add a HSI. This would be the minimal work way but maybe not the cheapest.

You could redo your panel with a used EFIS and do the same change as above with the NAV/COM. Might be cheaper than the steam AI.

Or you could get a whole new wiz bang EFIS and add a certified GPS. Mucho bucks.

I know you used to be able to do your IFR training without a precision approach capability, but many want you to demonstrate that now.

If it were me (with this setup), I would change to an EFIS with engine monitor, keep the KX125, add a CDI (like the KI-202, KI-206, or KNI-520), and find an instructor that will do it all non-precision.

Now, actually flying in IMC may call for a different response.

In my situation, I had an EFIS already and just added a GNS-480.

[Bill.Peyton]

I commend you for wanting to proceed with your training and obtain and instrument rating.
It appears that it would be very difficult and maybe impossible with the space you have available on your panel, to add an AI and a CDI. If you could, the least expensive way to accomplish your goal would be to add an electric AI, purchase a used certified GPS, does not have to be a 430, could be kln94 etc. add a CDI that is switchable between the radio and the GPS, such as a KX209A. You will not need a GPS annunciator if the GPS is mounted correctly. Talk to your local avionics shop and see if the have any used equipment for sale and what they would charge to upgrade your panel. IMHO, this is the cheapest way, not necessarily the best, and could maybe be accomplished for $5-10K depending on the radio.
Alternatively, purchase an EFIS from Garmin/Dynon/GRT/AFS and a 430 or 650. Both these radios give you a certified GPS and a Nav/Comm in one box. This of course would require a new panel layout and a significant amount of wiring. You would be into the panel for well over $10K

Edit: Just realized you also need a DG, which now suggests an vacuum system and using a vacuum AI.

[6 Gun]

Ok heres a cheap way to do this move the light and three little toggles under airspeed to another place in the panel and locate the turn and bank there now you have hole for AI in the right place . All you need to be IFR legal is a VOR and a Localizer Indicators and some older radios have LED indicators built in so no Instrument hole would be needed also a GPS or heated airspeed is not required for EXP this is cheap way not the best.
Bob

[Bwing96]

Is a vacuum system required or can you get AI and DG out of a EFIS?

[N941WR]

Originally Posted by Bwing96

Is a vacuum system required or can you get AI and DG out of a EFIS?

There is no requirement to have a "vacuum system" or even a whiskey compass. Any of the EFISes out there will work.

The quickest way for the OP to go would be to install a Dynon D10A, Dynon heated pitot tube, Dynon autopilot, and a G430w. Oh and maybe an audio panel. Toss in a Dynon D1 and keep the x96 for backups and he is good to go.

I'm not so sure a heated pitot is even required, even though it is a good idea.

[BobTurner]

Some bad info here.
You need to do three different approaches. An ILS, VOR, and localizer will suffice, so a typical nav com is all you need for navigation, if it includes a localizer and glide slope. NO GPS is required.
You do need an attitude indicator (AI), heading indicator (DG), and a CDI for the nav radio. To have some redundancy the AI and DG should be air or vacuum powered. Now, I don't see how to fit three more 3" gauges into your panel as is. Maybe you can. So the alternative as I see it is to make room by tearing out most of what you have, and replace it with an EFIS that will display all your engine instruments, flight intruments, and CDI. Then you'll need another, battery powered EFIS, as a backup. Not what you wanted to hear, I'm sure. Maybe you can add a vacuum pump and find room for those extra 3 instruments. Maybe move the portable gps, put the tach up there, ...?

Edit: there are some used, vacuum driven HSI's around (combination DG and CDI). That would reduce the number of extra 3" holes to two.

[RV10inOz]

My opinion.

Your life depends on it.

Build it like it does.

Do not go cheap.

Have redundancy in units and power to them.

So to explain my position on the above, if you have a GNS 430W and it dies, you lose the VOR/ILS and the GPS all in one box, as well as the radio. If the power fails to that you lose it and anything else.

No two EFIS systems shall share a common circuit breaker in anything I fly IFR. So have redundent power and the ability to select it. Also have yourself an ability to run for 90 minutes after an alternator dies. Why 90? because after a while it will still not be 90, and load shedding can only go so far.

Imagine being on an ILS in IMC and it all goes blank.

And my other pet hate, there is only VFR and IFR. Period. There s no rule set in the FAR's called "light IFR". There may be better weather some days than others but do not get caught up in the concept that I am designing only for light IFR duty.

Flame suit on and tested!

[n981ms]

I agree if you are building an IFR panel it should be "FAR IFR" capable. However, I think people that discuss "light IFR" are usually referring to their own personal minimums. IMHO as a "light IFR" pilot, I think personal minimums are a good idea.