VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #11  
Old 10-28-2013, 08:44 PM
N15JB N15JB is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Denver
Posts: 564
Default

Aaron, I am sorry for your loss. I have been flying for almost 50 years and during that time have lost a number of friends, and had a few close calls myself. Each time I ask myself the same questions that you are having. So far I have chosen to keep flying, but I do what I can to mitigate the risk i.e. don't exceed my personal limits, careful maintenance of my plane, and I still fly with an instructor twice a month( I never know what he is going to ask for). It keeps me honest about my skills.

Any of us can be taken in a flash. Our bicycle club was doing a multiday ride in Moab 2 weeks ago. Sunny, dry day; newly paved road with little traffic; flat, low speed section. What could go wrong? One of our riders was hit with a microburst that flipped him and his bike in the air. Landed on his head(wearing a helmet) suffering an unsurvivable brain injury. Who would have thought?

My wife and I met doing technical climbing; another high risk activity. After every climbing death, people would always say he died doing what he loved. While that may be true, most were taken in the prime of their life and the families were left to carry on without a mate or parent.

I still don't know how to reconcile all these various needs and wants. There is no perfect answer, so I just try to make reasoned decisions. Life is a risk.

Jim Berry
RV-10
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-28-2013, 08:45 PM
rv6rick's Avatar
rv6rick rv6rick is offline
JOAT-MON & Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vincent, Ohio
Posts: 737
Default

I used to think flying was 'worth it'.

Not any more. I only use it to stay in touch with friends and anymore I can't wait to get on the ground.

When I'm 'finished' I don't think I'll miss it a bit.

The above said.....I absolutely love building airplanes .
__________________
Rick Gray in Ohio - Builder Assist Center - 50+ Awards & counting

BRONZE / SILVER & GOLD LINDY AWARD WINNING RV's & Rockets

EAA Oshkosh Homebuilt Judge/Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor / F.A.S.T. Formation Flight Lead

Kitfox/RV4/6/7/8/9/10/12/14?s
6 RV10's
2 Time Sun n Fun Grand Champion
F1 Rocket #1 Oshkosh Gold Lindy Grand Champion!
F1 Rocket #2 :-)
Fastback RV8 Slider
RV14 #2 in progress

54 RV's & Rockets & counting


Whirlwind Prop Dealer

Love my Pitts S-1S
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-28-2013, 08:49 PM
dealfair dealfair is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: George West, TX
Posts: 567
Default Of course it's worth it.

I'm deeply saddened by your loss Aaron, truly. But let's keep some perspective here. Texas has already had approximately 2,650 fatalities on our highways to date THIS YEAR.

My area is in the center of the Eagle Ford Shale oil play. I was run off the highway last week by a 32 wheeler. I've given up on replacing windshields & took to driving a clunker because of the battle damage. One day I was chatting with a County Clerk just before she was to go see a doctor. While she was parked at a highway intersection, a collision occurred between oilfield vehicles & a 10" pipe went through her vehicle decapitating her. I learned of it about 30 minutes later & was devastated. Stuff like this is a daily occurrence.

Personally, I feel safer flying over this madness looking down on it. A crash is a crash, period. Inexperienced drivers don't properly secure their loads and it falls onto oncoming vehicles. I can go on ad nasuseam. I'm looking forward to my next flight. I'll do my best to be as safe as I can. However, I'm sorry to say my money is on me either going through an automobile windshield or some piece of equipment coming through & taking me out.

I'd rather dodge buzzards now. Surviving is a gamble regardless. Good luck Aaron. I hope you keep flying. God Bless.
__________________
Deal Fair
RV-4 (N34CB)
George West, TX (8T6)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-28-2013, 08:54 PM
scrollF4's Avatar
scrollF4 scrollF4 is offline
Moderator, Asst. Line Boy
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Flower Mound, TX
Posts: 1,473
Default Is it worth it?

Aaron,
My most heartfelt wishes for comfort go out to you and, especially, to Kevin's family and friends.
As for your question, let me say I am grateful that you have asked it so openly. Few aviators do. We are mortals after all, but I believe we must ask. Mark, I feel differently about whether the risk is acceptable if one has to ask the question: On the contrary, I believe a mature and conscientious aviator and responsible aircraft builder must ask it, and often.
Gang, I was the USAF Chief of Aviation Safety and Air Combat Command's Director of Safety from 2008 until my retirement 6 months ago. During those 5 years I directed and executed about 3 dozen "Class A" aviation mishap investigations (those involving fatalities, total aircraft destruction, or damage exceeding $2million). Of course the fatalities hit hardest, and for reasons far beyond the fact that some of them were personal friends. Remember the C-17 crash at Alaska a few years back? I knew one of the pilots, and yes it was tough to watch the video of the jet nosing over. Try repeatedly analyzing the time-synchronized cockpit voice recording, hearing my friend and his crew's final "oh God" utterances in this world. It made "the question" quake the very foundation of my aviator soul.
Every time, I asked myself why the **** I'm building this aircraft, why I keep flying. And very time I got the same answer, each time with a deeper sense of conviction. I am an aviator. It's what defines me, defines my passion. I couldn't live without it, even if it introduces risks that wouldn't exist if I just sold the project. So I'll not turn a blind eye to the risk. I'll build my aircraft carefully. I'll learn from Kevin's loss: I'll apply the mishap prevention lessons that his investigation team offers us just like my investigators did in Air Force Safety. We owe that to all our friends, past and present.
Mark's logic does have merit, though, because it broaches the basic tenets of Risk Management: After summing up the risks, and assessing the potential effectiveness of available risk mitigation tactics, if the risk's severity and probability still outweigh the benefit of flying, then I'd say it is time to call a "knock it off."
That's ultimately a very personal decision, but it starts by asking the question: Is this really worth it? Aaron, I'm glad you asked.
__________________
Scroll

Sid "Scroll" Mayeux, Col, USAF (ret)
52F NW Regional/Aero Valley Airport, Roanoke TX (home of DR's Van Cave)
"KELLI GIRL" N260KM RV-7A tipper
Catch her on YouTube's "Because I Fly!" channel

Exemption waived.
Proud and grateful 2020 -=VAF=- Contributor
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-28-2013, 09:07 PM
ILikePike ILikePike is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Eatonton, GA
Posts: 215
Default

When I die they will put me under the ground. Until then I will fly above it.

Sorry for your loss.
__________________
Jeff Green
2016 RV-8 #82985
1968 E33C Aerobatic Bonanza
Pleased to donate Dec 2019
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-28-2013, 09:25 PM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,291
Default

To NOT ask this question of yourself, to NOT consider carefully the risks and then make your decision, is foolhardy.

Many years ago when I was in commercial helicopters I lost six friends in four weeks. That really got my insides churning and I started to look for different work. Then another friend was taken by a freak mechanical failure just a day before I received a job offer elsewhere in the industry. Without hesitation I took that job. While I doubt I will ever find another career path that provides the constant high level of stimulation offered by helicopter ops, I also have been able to sleep better at night knowing my personal risk level has been reduced to limits I can live with.

We each make our own assessments as to risk and base our decisions on those assessments. Two other forces are at play - complacency in the form of not wanting to embark on a path that requires us to affect and accept change, and emotional turmoil that results from grief. The latter force is one we understand can be mitigated with the passage of time, while the former requires great personal strength to change.

I sincerely hope you find a way to be at peace with yourself and with the risks you take in life, whatever they might be. In the meantime, mourn your friend, honor him as best you can and let some time pass before making a decision as to how you wish to move forward.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-28-2013, 10:00 PM
bkc3921 bkc3921 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DuBois,Il
Posts: 144
Default Ironic post for me

I am 58 and a retired State Police Sergeant..spent all of my career on the road. Lots of close calls with people and traffic, and yes, I have had people point guns at me and try to disarm me...but today, 10/28, was the closest I have ever come to being killed. Came out of the New Balance store in suburbia, had a green light and arrow, pulled onto an obstructed view state route...and a semi-driver ran a red light, locked up the brakes, and came within (literally) 10 feet of broadsiding me, turning me into a meat waffle, and turning my wife into a widow. I have handled thousands of crashes..there is NO WAY I would have survived the hit..When a Freightliner vs. a Honda Civic, Freightliner wins.

My point: Getting killed this morning was the last thing on my mind. I was just buying a pair of shoes. Bad things happen even when people ARE careful. Living the life you want is optional...dying is mandatory. Nobody is getting out of here alive.

I suggest strongly that you do not make any rash decisions. You are too close to this tragic incident to make a rational judgment. Give it some time..and then if you feel the same way, and give up flying, at least you can look at yourself in the mirror every day.

Sorry for your loss.
__________________
Brian K. Morrow
DuBois,Il
N433BC RV-7A Flying
RV-12is EMP done, FUSE in progress!..Official Repeat Offender
"Maintain thy airspeed...Lest the earth arise and smite thee..."

Last edited by rv6rick : 10-29-2013 at 05:42 AM. Reason: removed expletive
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-29-2013, 12:17 AM
jjhoneck jjhoneck is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: PORT ARANSAS
Posts: 419
Default

So many great responses.

First, let me add my condolences. I've lost three friends in flying accidents, and it's awful.

That said, we're all either living, or just waiting to die. I would rather face the specter of a possible death in my RV, versus hanging it up and waiting for the inevitable decline into darkness.

No one is getting off this planet alive, and frankly, my genetic duty here is done. From this point on, I live for me -- and that life includes flying an RV-8 as often as possible until I am no longer physically able to do so.

If I ever buy the farm while flying, I would hope y'all will lift a cold one to me whilst facing West, knowing that I died doing EXACTLY what i wanted to be doing. My family knows this, and understands.
__________________
Jay Honeck
RV-8A N14EG
Port Aransas, TX
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-29-2013, 06:20 AM
pierre smith's Avatar
pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,840
Default Yes

Aaron, yes...to me it is worth it.

Every year, at our National Ag Aviation convention, we hold a "moment of silence" for the deceased crop dusters that died that year, EVERY year. This year, four of my colleagues have died, same as last year. Two of them hit towers...one was only 32, with a wife and two little daughters.

My best friend died in a Formula One air race in DC and my boss died in his Bearcat, on the way home from Reno.

At 68, in my 43rd year of ag flying, we just push on and I can't see myself doing anything else....that, and BFR's occasionally.

Give it a couple of days and go on from there.

Best,
__________________
Pierre Smith
RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15 Sold
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20 Sold
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga

It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132


Dues gladly paid!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-29-2013, 06:51 AM
RickWoodall's Avatar
RickWoodall RickWoodall is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,452
Thumbs up Yes, of course it is worth it.

I understand your concern but it will pass. I too am completely bummed when we loose a friend but it happens to cancer, car accidents, whatever.

My little plane has given me the opportunity to see places and things and to share those very special experiences with friends family and most of all my wife that I would never be able to do without it. Just this last weekend I took my 13 year old son out to breakfast in the plane and he worked on straight and level, following a track, eyes outside etc and loved it. On the way home we went up and around some of the nicest clouds ever at 6-10K...his comments were this is "awesome". If its my time one day sooner than later, he will remember that trip much more than a morning on the couch with x box. I will not sit on a couch or hide from the dangers of the world. I built the best plane I could, I check all I can religiously, I work on safety and I do my best to fly safe and smart. Its all I can do. If its my time.....its my time. Don't live in fear or you wont go atv'ing or snow mobiling or to the big cities, or out of the country, or even on the major highways etc etc. Live life on your terms and share the fun of it will all the people you can. My life is WAY better for having an airplane. I would say its possible the therapy of having a plane and the joy I get out of it actually makes my relationships with wife and kids BETTER, the friendships I have made are rewarding, and the flying lowers my stress etc that may have other beneficial impacts on my health etc. Fly safe, be smart, take precautions but LIVE it up. Just my 2 cents because you asked.
__________________
Rick Woodall C-GSTT "ghost"
9a -TMX io-320, catto three blade, dual dynon hdx with a/p. 900+ hrs in 8 yrs flying.

Flew to Osh 11,12,15,17,19. SNF 2013. West to Cali /Washington/Vancouver/crossed the Rockies north to Red Deer east to Moosonee and over to maritimes. South to Jekyll Isl, cedar key, and Key West etc. 6 trips and 17 islands of the Bahamas. Flown turtles and dogs for Pilots n Paws too. Love our Rv's

Last edited by RickWoodall : 10-29-2013 at 06:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:44 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.