RV down in Texas, Pilot uninjured, plane destroyed

[TS Flightlines]

Wow. Something else that makes us all stop and take a breath. Outstanding job getting it down, and getting out.
Yes, we all would like to know what happened, but I'll wait to here from him. I imagine that anyone, doesnt matter who, would be shook up over this. He may not be ready or able yet to discuss it, due to insurance investigation.
Tom

[dealfair]

Originally Posted by TS Flightlines

Wow. Something else that makes us all stop and take a breath. Outstanding job getting it down, and getting out.
Yes, we all would like to know what happened, but I'll wait to here from him. I imagine that anyone, doesnt matter who, would be shook up over this. He may not be ready or able yet to discuss it, due to insurance investigation.
Tom

Right Tom!! It has shaken me just thinking about it!! James will forever be MR. POHOSKI to me now. His incident has already rendered a positive for us, IMO. I have an oil change coming up and all my oil/fuel lines/systems are going to undergo very intense scrutiny. Like all of you, I'm sure, an in-flight fire is one of our worst night mares and inspections are always intense. But, this just DRIVES the possibility home and I will get some extra eye balls to help me out. Not a bad thing.

Best to all and MR. POHOSKI,

[TS Flightlines]

Agreed Deal, just like TK's accident. Shook me up---HUGE. So I slowed down on my building, and talked ALOT of people. The causes we may not know, but we can be more cautious. Sometimes, things happen for reasons we wont fully understand. But, fortunately, there are smarter people on this forum than I am that can find answers. In every bad incident, there is something we can learn. Hopefully James will be able to talk to us about this.
Tom

[Aryana]

I keep a fire extinguisher within my reach in the cabin, mounted under my seat. Even a small fire can get out of hand if you don't have a means to put it out. I only cruise at 10k max (most of the time 5k feet or less) so getting on the ground, best case scenario is 6-10 minutes...a lot can burn in that amount of time!

*Time to get on the ground is based on 1k ft/min descent at 30 mph while stalled or 1.5k ft/min descent at 100 mph in a dive. Which method is used will be based on if the fire is in the cowling or in the cabin. I've tested both methods and I can trim the airplane out in both conditions and have my hands free to use the extinguisher.

Saw a Velocity burn to the ground after landing very fast and cooking the brakes until they caught fire. Everyone got out and watched the brake fire consume most of the aircraft until the fire dept put it out.

Of course an extinguisher may not have made a difference here so we'll see what the story is.

[Arlen]

Originally Posted by Aryana

*Time to get on the ground is based on 1k ft/min descent at 30 mph while stalled or 1.5k ft/min descent at 100 mph in a dive. .

Aryana,
I would hope to get a more rapid descent than just 1500 fpm, since getting on the ground from 10,000 ft at that rate will take 7 minutes, a lifetime (and the end of that life) if the plane's on fire.

I have very limited experience in RVs, but, in the Bonanza:
- pull the power to idle
- prop to high rpm
- flaps on approach setting
- gear down
- push the nose over to keep airspeed at the top of the green arc

In that configuration, I'm descending at 4500 fpm.

Is that kind of descent rate not an option in an RV?

[Aryana]

Originally Posted by Arlen

Aryana,
I would hope to get a more rapid descent than just 1500 fpm, since getting on the ground from 10,000 ft at that rate will take 7 minutes, a lifetime (and the end of that life) if the plane's on fire.

I have very limited experience in RVs, but, in the Bonanza:
- pull the power to idle
- prop to high rpm
- flaps on approach setting
- gear down
- push the nose over to keep airspeed at the top of the green arc

In that configuration, I'm descending at 4500 fpm.

Is that kind of descent rate not an option in an RV?

Sorry, I should have clarified that the descent was based on my Cessna 170, not a RV. I could descend at 2k ft/min or more, but at those speeds I start imagining what a big bump might do to my 60 year old airframe! But put me on fire and we'll see how fast and far I really point that nose down.

[Eddie P]

Oh you can get down pretty fast - a lot faster than 1500fpm - depending on the plane you might easily be able to get down a lot faster that 4500 fpm too but designs vary greatly. It's been a while since I was an active piston CFI, but back in the old days I recall there were a few planes I was teaching in (BE-76 Duchess, C-402 maybe) that you'd pull power to idle, props full, initiate a rapid descent at max speed (hoping to smother the fire with too much air while trying to reduce/eliminate the fuel source), head toward an emergency field/road and then once you had a fire identified for certain and the right engine too you'd shut down the (appropriate) engine while setting up for the emergency set down if the fire was still burning. Single engine, of course, you are getting all the fuel sources shut down (mixture, fuel selector) and depending on the design (and this varies greatly) turning off any possible electrical or otherwise ignition sources...

A fire needs three things to burn - 1)Heat 2)Oxidizer (most times oxygen) 3)Fuel

Take any one of those away in the right quantity (too much or too little) and the fire is out at least temporarily until something changes again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_triangle

Well done to this pilot for getting down and out alive!!

[grubbat]

Actually, its four things. Don't ask me how I know. It was beat into my brains many years ago.....

Heat, Fuel, Oxygen (oxidizing agent), Chemical chain reaction

On another note, what do you have in your cockpit that is combustible? Plastic hoses, home depot carpet (not a dig on Home Depot, just an example), cloth seats with foam that burns like a scalded dog (sorry about the dog example), paint that isn't fireproof, etc. If it doesn't burn, does it give off smoke if ignited or super heated?

In race cars, a small bottle is mounted on roll cage and a pin is routed to cockpit in easy reach. The bottle is plumbed to engine compartment. Pull the pin and the bottle empties into the engine compartment. In a fire situation having one extra option can be the difference between walking away or having us come get you out and put you in a bag. Your choice.

I would rather see you walk or crawl out and live to complain another day. The other way is rather unpleasant for both of us.

[Aryana]

Originally Posted by grubbat

In a fire situation having one extra option can be the difference between walking away or having us come get you out and put you in a bag. Your choice.

Completely agree with this 100%!!!

[jrs14855]

Emergency Descent procedures for type certificated aircraft are usually divided into two procedures: known or suspected structural damage or no known damage. The no structural damage procedure is normally performed at Vne. There is some consensus that high speed descent will help to extinguish a fire.
The first step is to shut off the fuel. Can you reach and operate your fuel shutoff without diverting attention from flying the airplane??? If not you need to practice this.
There are many race car fire extinguisher systems available that are plumbed into the engine compartment. The most basic systems weigh 5-10# and include a actuator control and a two nozzle discharge. Prices are in the $5-700 range.