TW and basic acro

vmirv8bldr · #1 08-30-2006, 11:26 AM

I'm getting close to the deciding point of TW or tricycle. Since I had never flown TW and there happens to be a brand new Citabria at the trusty local FBO, I decided to give it a go.

(Don't worry this is not a TW vs. Tricycle war thread starting)

While at first I was VERY nervous, I've learned the TW is not so bad. If you haven't tried it, don't be too quick to put it down. I enjoy flying the Citabria and have made my decision. Now the second part of the post:

We did fully developed spins and some basic acro today. I have never in my life gotten motion sickness. I've been scuba diving in very rough waters, others puking their guts out,...no problem. In fact, I've always found it humorous to watch others downing dramamine like candy, only to be hurling it up later. At any rate, after doing LOTS and LOTS of spins and spin recovery, I felt great. In fact, I rather enjoyed it. Then we did some basic acro.

From this point on, the instructor had the plane.

We did a loop. Awesome! Followed the loop with an aileron roll. Yee-Haw! Did a Hammerhead. Yawing over and G's on pullout did something weird to me, but still enjoying it. Feeling slightly warm in the head, no biggie. Did a 1/2 cuban eight. Cool. Then we climbed back up(I had the plane back now) about 1000' - 1500' (from where we were, not AGL) and did a 6-spin descent. I began feeling quite uneasy upon pullout and was relieved to hear that we were going back to the field and practice wheel landings.

This was as close as I have ever been to motion sickness. Never lost my cookies, but had had enough. I've been in other planes doing aerobatics and never had the slightest bit of sickness. So the question:

Is this pretty normal and I'll get over it? Are there any tips or tricks to help adjust? Was this just a lot for my ear canals to process in one day?

(That Citabria is some FUN flying. If you have only been in Cessnas and Archers, find a Citabria and get some lessons! Excellent motivation to work on the RV and get it flying!!!!)

szicree · #2 08-30-2006, 12:22 PM

I'll pass along some good advice I got from a very experienced acro pilot named Michael Church: Don't get disoriented. Sounds obvious, but what he meant was to never be surprised by what you see. For example, you're performing a loop. You start the initial pull up and as plane pitches up you lose sight of the horizon. You look left and watch as the wingtip rotates on the horizon. As you near the top, you look directly over your head expecting to see the horizon running horizontally across the canopy, but instead its crooked because the first part of the loop was sloppy. Your brain is surprised and confused by this and the next thing you know you wanna barf. The trick is to look around enough to always know exactly what the attitude of the plane is. I think everybody has had the experience of being on an airliner and feeling like the plane is doing one thing, only to look out the window and find things are not what you thought. This is a big cause of motion sickness; the senses in conflict. Also, nerves play a big role, because when you're tense you tend to fixate on objects. Hope this helps and glad to hear you've come over to the dark side. Tailwheelers Unite!!

RV7Factory · #3 08-30-2006, 12:29 PM

Some people swear by ginger... ginger snaps/cookies, ginger candy, anything with ginger in it consumed before acro. I've even seen Sean Tucker walking around his hangar with a box of ginger cookies before a practice flight.

Edit: Your body will aclimate to it as well. A few years ago I trained for some acro competitions by flying twice a day (hard acro in a Pitts S-2C) on Saturdays for 6 to 8 weeks straight. The first two weekends were rough, but by the third, I could handle anything the plane could do. If I tried that today, I wouldn't fare so well.

pierre smith · #4 08-30-2006, 02:12 PM

Steve and Brad make very valid points, but one thing I know for sure, is that if you had been doing the flying rather than being a passenger, the outcome would have been much better. The g's will take time to get used to, especially when you go out for an hour of acro. Even a half hour is tough.

Did you "grunt" during the g pull? By that I mean tightening up your abdomen and pushing (as though you're constipated) [sorry Doug] to help keep your blood from draining from your brain? All these little things help and become second nature if you do a bunch of acro.

szicree · #5 08-30-2006, 02:20 PM

One more interesting thing I forgot to mention. It's believed that the nausea is the body's way of overcoming possible ingestion of poison. When the senses get confused your body figures you've eaten some funny mushroom or such and makes you hurl.

hecilopter · #6 08-30-2006, 02:27 PM

I can handle the acro, but I can't stand to sit and watch TV and the screen to start "shaking". Example - someone is running with a video camera on and the screen bounces or someone continuously zooms in and out and makes the screen seem to move. It makes me sicker that a dog! My upper lip starts sweating, my head gets warm, and I get a major headache. Soon I am nauseated.

I don't know if it is only me that gets this way, but it is only when I watch TV and it "shakes".

Acro in the plane doesn't bother me a bit. Go figure.

prporter · #7 08-30-2006, 02:32 PM

If I get a baseball bat, put one end on the ground, lower my face to the other end that is pointing up, and hold it, and then spin around it as fast as I can, for as long as I can, I get really sick, too. But, I can handle acro just fine. I dunno.

McFly · #8 08-30-2006, 02:35 PM

I've been motion sick 4 times in my entire life, twice last weekend

In getting ready for my first flight and just getting back into the flying, I took a two day Unusual Attitudes course last weekend. The ?training? plane was a Pitts S2-B and the training involved a lot of spins, acro and well unusual attitudes. I didn?t toss my cookies but I felt horrible after 30-40 minutes. The instructor said he used to get sick too but you build up a tolerance with time. His statement sure made my bruised ego bruised feel a little better.

Hugh

PS: One of the exercises was to overload a turn which is putting in a little (let me emphasize little) too much inside rudder at slow airspeed, basically simulating a turn from base to final. Spin city. It was a real eye opener. Great course and lots of fun despite turing green.

vmirv8bldr · #9 08-30-2006, 02:53 PM

Pierre, I did not grunt or do the "M" maneuver, I think it's called, because it's similar to a BM maneuver done usually after large qunatities of Raisin Bran or Blueberries.

I will try that next time.

McFly, We did do the base to final uncoordinated slow flight setup that you mentioned and you're right. Definitely do not want to do that one low to the ground! A definite Eye opener. That kerosene ball isn't for decoration!

I think that knowing a little more about what to expect next time will help as well. Previously I was along for the joyride, just having fun. Today I was still a passenger, but was also a student trying to pay attention to control inputs, timing, relative position of the aircraft, RPM's, etc with cues from the CFI like "Now left out the left, now look up, now look out the front.

The oatmeal breakfast sounds good too.

Thanks,
Keep those anecdotes coming!

Bill Dicus · #10 08-30-2006, 03:10 PM

All the replies are helpful. I fly a lot of acro in a Pitts and still can get sick if someone else is flying, especially if looking through a camcorder viewfinder, etc. You'll be fine and probably have a better threshold for motion problems than most of the rest of us. Eat normally before flight and most imortant keep oriented. You'll learn where to look to maintain your orientation and can ask your instructor to help you with that. You will be fine with acro! Have fun. Bill