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POSTING RULES

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10-02-2013, 07:22 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Quincy, Florida
Posts: 680
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critical comments
Geeeeez.......................
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10-02-2013, 08:09 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KSLC
Posts: 4,021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefPilot
Completely agree. Using fear or feigned concern to sell products will certainly color perceptions now and in the future.
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Feigned ........ficticious,bogas, etc.
How do you know it is?
Along the same lines, I sure wish I had one of those doo-dads, that keeps the nose leg straight. If I had one, I'd still have a plane. That very worthwhile product was released just a few weeks too late.
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10-02-2013, 08:47 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Valley Forge, Pa
Posts: 636
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Vans denied the A gear problem pinning it on pilot error for years. When forced they changed the fork design shortened the leg.Time marched forward and the 10 came out with a whole new front gear leg set up,Still pointing the finger at pilot error for the A gear failures.All the Anti-Splat modifications do,are put the odds back in your favor,If you hit a gofer hole without them you had a 70% chance of ending upside down,now the same hole your odds are down to 30% a big improvement. Prop wash has beat the heck out of VS & Rudders for years, Most 6's have stop drills around the trailing edge,my early plans had me fill the trailing edge with RTV to stop the cracks,Look at the right step issue on 7a/9a's. As much as I hate added weight or until the forward spar is punched out of stainless, I'll spend the $50 for the mod and ream for close tolerance AN
bolts.I understand it cures nothing,I do it to improve my odds nothing more.
I wonder how many builders have gone ahead with plans to build a A gear because of Anti-Splat......I know I'm a sample of 1. Thank You Allan!
IMHO
RHill
Last edited by rhill : 10-02-2013 at 09:19 PM.
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10-02-2013, 08:54 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Big Sandy, WY
Posts: 2,567
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You guys are missing the point. It's not that I think Alan's mods are bogus. Just that sometimes it seems I'm reading Vans Advertising Forum.
__________________
Actual repeat offender.
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10-02-2013, 08:55 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gereed75
Got to weigh in on this one -
All of the engineering and manufacturing capability brought to bear by Allan and his parent company for the benefit of the RV community are far, far distant from medicine show. He and his employer bring a level of engineering and manufacturing expertise to the small RV after market that can be matched by very few other vendors. I think they deserve better.
I for one would hate to see that talent, skill and benefit harassed out of the market.
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I completely agree!!!
Allan is one of the good guys, and I agree with his comments, as well about the negative pissy comments that occur in this forum. I'm an engineer, have many of his products, have met Allan, and have nothing but praise for the man.
The Nay sayers here need to back off on your insinuations and at least try to be professional. Geezzzzzzz
__________________
Long-EZ built 1985 -> Sold 2007
RV-9A; N539RV First Flight: 7/2010
RV-8A N468DL 40 hr Flight Test Program
Building Log: www.mykitlog.com/n539rv
APRS Tracking: aprs.fi/n539rv
2017 Paid
Last edited by rv9av8tr : 10-02-2013 at 09:00 PM.
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10-02-2013, 09:03 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: KANE, Hugo, Minnesota
Posts: 765
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I have to weigh in too...
Allan, I appreciate all your innovations and talent. I also appreciate the way you bring them to the forum. I think it is professional and in no way trying to scare people into buying stuff. For crying out loud people...if you don't like what he is selling, don't buy it. I for one feel he is the only one out there addressing known issues with these aircraft with simple fixes that help improve your odds. When my plane is at the correct stages Allan, I will be a customer.
To all the naysayers...IF YOU HAVE A BETTER IDEA, GET TO THE DRAWING BOARD YOURSELVES AND START MAKING PARTS.
Allan has a right to offer what he has for sale on this forum without getting harrassed out of here.
__________________
Aaron Arvig
RV-9A
Empennage Done
Wings-In Progress
N568AK Reserved
SOLD?but I'll be back
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10-02-2013, 10:14 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Paso Robles, CA
Posts: 1,177
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BOLTS NAS6603 & NAS6604......
Close tolerance
160 to 180 ksi
readily available
drilled or not for many configurations
Standard AN bolts 125 ksi.
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10-02-2013, 10:22 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Prather, CA
Posts: 191
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It seems like Allan's posts really get under the skin of a few of you. May I recommend the "ignore" function via a short trip to your user control panel? I've made good use of it on another forum I frequent. That way you don't have to see his posts, get your blood pressure up, and then make posts of your own that express your displeasure.
Regards,
Doug
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10-02-2013, 10:35 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 2,125
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There are a few facets of Alan's OP...some very positive, and some that have raised some concern of jumping to conclusions. I fly with a few of Alan's products and have benefitted from Alan's generosity of time and sponsorship of my RV in racing. I truly don't feel he's the type to use scare tactics or opportunistic marketing.
That being said, I do however, see where language in the OP could raise concerns. We all do our best to convey the message we hope to send, and in this case (shooting straight here Alan) the message about your VS Spar Doubler and the conceptualization of a tool for inspecting and adjusting control surface attachment hardware (both positive things), was blended with your concerns over tail component failures (a very emotional topic).
The thread title (which you said you've evaluated candidly in an earlier post), combined with statements about "becoming a little paranoid" over "recent events and the incident in Canada a couple of years ago involving tail feathers" raised my eyebrows too. I know you are honestly concerned, and if a product within your manufacturing capabilities can help add to safety, you are motivated by the value added to the community. I appreciate that about you very much!
However, the combined discussion of (1) the recent tragic event (about which we really don't yet have answers at all), with (2) recent discussion of elevator spar cracks, plus (3) discussion of VS spar attach hardware...with a dose of (4) this comment, "I would like to see some photos of these mounting plates on the aircraft that experienced the major or complete tail failures, resulting in total destruction" becomes a pretty invigorating blend of words, as we have seen.
As I said, it raised my eyebrows, and I know you mean well, so this is just honest feedback from a friend, and a plug for your forthrightness to others who may not know you yet.
I don't know if there have been "major or complete tail failures, resulting in total destruction", but those are strong words! The thread evolved and even includes discussion of canopy impact on tails.
The combo of events above has many inspecting their tails closely...all good. Perhaps we can separate inspecting the the VS spar and doubling as deemed necessary into one concept or task; inspecting the elevator and H-stab (and developing a tool to help in that task) into another; and leave the Canadian RV-7 incident (completely different failure mode or cause), and the recent accident (completely unknown failure mode or cause) out of what would otherwise be a very positive and productive discussion.
And if you come up with a tool that makes inspecting the tail easier, I'm all in (I inspect my tail often, to be sure!) I would also love to see what Steve Smith suggested to you, as he and I have had similar discussions of tail surface attachment security...though his suggestions may now be proprietary info!  )
So maybe we can call a truce, eh!
Cheers,
Bob
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerfTech
....In light of some recent events and the incident in Canada a couple of years ago involving tail feathers, I am becoming somewhat paranoid. After viewing a thread showing some cracks or flaws in the front vertical spar mountings on two airplanes. We decided to make a mod that would eliminate this being a potential problem as I am sure most on this forum are aware of. My greatest fear in flying is a major control surface failure, an in flight fire or a midair collision. Many of you ordered this product from us as a little extra insurance. As people began to check their aircraft or they went to install this item, we began to receive e-mail stating that they had found cracks in their vertical spar attach plate. That would suggest that this is not just a couple of isolated incidents. I would like to see some photos of these mounting plates on the aircraft that experienced the major or complete tail failures, resulting in total destruction. Possibly we could determine how and where they failed. If anyone has this, or access to some, please let us know, as we would be extremely interested.
... We are currently looking at producing a tool or set of tools to easily access and check the torque on the rudder and elevator mountings (suggestion from a fellow forum member). We hope to have an offering of this tool soon. Anyone with an idea for this type of product, an improved part or mod that may increase safety or piece of mind for all of us, please, give us a call or drop us an e-mail. I promise if at all feasible, we will do our best to evaluate and produce your ideas. Thanks, Allan... 
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Last edited by rvmills : 10-02-2013 at 10:47 PM.
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10-03-2013, 07:55 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wilmington DE
Posts: 323
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I want to add my thoughts, and they having nothing to do with comments or products, just my thoughts on the design of the attach point of the vertical spar.
When I completed this section on my RV-8 (not sure if this applies to other aircraft models), I was unhappy with the spacing of my rivets on the mid spar of the vertical stab, and unhappy with the edge distance I ended up with on the 4 bolt holes that hold that angled plate to the fuse. This was before I was aware of any failures in this area, but my engineer brain told me that this wasn't good enough. Using what I learned from building this area the first time, like I have done with many things on my airplane, I decided to redo this area completed. I replaced the entire mid spar of the vertical stab, made sure my rivets attaching that angled plate to the spar were perfectly spaced, and made sure that after I aligned the vertical, I was able to drill this plate with optimal edge distance on all 4 bolt holes.
Now I am happy with this area on my airplane. As with anything, I'm sure there is some other design for this attach point that could be better, but I do have confidence in Van's design. I have confidence in all of their designs. I believe that if care is taken to build the aircraft as Van's intended, there is no unsafe part of any of these aircraft. Whenever failures such as this occur, I always find myself leaning toward fault of the build itself rather than the design. Flying within the envelope that Van's has designated for each aircraft is important as well.
Just some thoughts I wanted to put out there. Build as well as you can. Mistakes will be made, but try and use your best judgement along with the advice of Van's Aircraft. If something is iffy, spend the money and redo it, it's worth it. Sometimes I felt like I should have just bought two kits for the spare parts, but I have an aircraft I am confident is built well. Also, fly within the design limits of the aircraft. It will always do what it's designed to do.
Also, I have no plans on modifying this area, but of course, I periodically inspect it.. you know, just in case.
__________________
Matt Giordano Sr. and Jr.
RV-8 - N861MM
Wilmington, DE
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