Emergency Dead stick landing

[dweyant]

I am a huge proponent of accident analysis.

In addition to being a pilot I'm also a fairly accomplished technical cave diver.

There are a number of parallels between cave diving and flying. Actually a number of my cave diving buddies are also pilots.

Unfortunately with the type of diving I do we have fatalities. Not frequently, but it does happen. As a group we try really hard to analyze the accident and see if anything can be learned from what happened.

This can be difficult, even brutal at times. I lost a good friend on a dive with me five years ago. Because I felt there was a lot that could be learned from his death, I made sure to get the data out as quickly as possible. I like to think that his mistakes have saved other lives.

Back in the mid-late 1970's cave diving was killing people at an alarming rate. It was so bad that some sheriffs started dynamiting entrances to cave (see Morrison springs), and making cave diving illegal.

Fortunately a combination of better training programs and accident analysis has made a huge difference in the safety of cave diving. So much so that, I personally only know of one cave diving fatality in the last 10+ years that was not either a CCR (closed circuit rebreather), or someone diving beyond training limits (PPL in IMC scenario).

So what is my point?

While I know that this type of analysis is horribly difficult for the folks doing it, I would encourage you to please, please, please share everything that you can. It really can make the difference in someone else living or dieing. And those of you asking the questions, please be aware of the difficulty in opening yourself up for criticism like this. I can tell you I spent months second guessing myself, could I have done anything more to save him? Should I have recognized he had a problem sooner?

Anyone that shares experiences like this with us should be held in the highest regard. They are contributing directly to our knowledge that very likely could save one of our lives some day.

-Dan

BTW, if anyone really cares about the details, they can google my name and read more than they probably want to know.

[Sig600]

I've read all the OP's posts, and I've yet to see where he "screwed up" or made any kind of mistake.

Taking it flying again after the second incident with the engine is probably beyond my personal comfort zone... but someone point out the huge error here that everyone is talking about.

[DanH]

Originally Posted by Geico266

I too will be adding total fuel flow to my my condition inspections. Thanks Canada!

Just keep in mind that a fuel flow check doesn't always expose an intermittent obstruction.

[Aryana]

What a story, glad it ended well!

I never judge/chastise in these situations because it could be my turn in the very next flight...you never know.

If pilots much better than most (if not all) of us have managed to back themselves into tight situations, then it can happen to anyone.

[DougJ]

10 or so years ago, prior to moving to FW aircraft, I was an Army maintenance test pilot on the CH-47. Part of my job was to fly aircraft other people wouldn't or couldn't.

Obviously you don't just jump in and go fly in any aircraft that's having problems, but at some point you're going exhaust all of your troubleshooting steps and reach the end of your experience/skill at troubleshooting a problem. It sounds like the OP did work though that process. You might be able to go back now and discuss what might have been missed, but he obviously felt that it was time to go fly. I've been there several times myself, and all you can do is your best. In the helicopter there are alot of moving parts that can kill you, but at least we could ground run and come to a hover to test things to a point prior to committing to forward flight.

Here's where MedFlightDoc got caught: When you're on a test flight with a problem that you have been unable definitively indentify, you're goal is to replicate to problem so that you can find and fix it. If you can?t get the problem to show itself your test flight is inconclusive and you?re back to troubleshooting. You must operate that way for the entire flight. With that in mind you have to remember that MURPHY is your copilot on the test flight. If you get even a bit complacent in your preparations or during the performance of the test flight Murphy is gonna jump up and bite you. Relax a bit and get outside glide distance from the runway, well that?s the moment the engine is going to fail, at that worst possible time.

Once the engine stopped it sounds like Ryan did a darn good job controlling the airplane and walking away from the engine failure. We should all commend him for being willing to so openly share the experience, as I said before what he?s doing now could save someone else later. Take his hard earned lesson to heart. On a test flight of this type assume that what can go wrong will go wrong, and at the worst possible moment. Plan out your intended actions for the flight and execute that plan with precision. If it can be helped, don?t leave any opening for Mr. Murphy!

Doug

[RV7A Flyer]

Then, at probably the worst possible time, getting to pattern altitude or slightly below, about 2 miles from airport (I had drifted out and away while descending) then engine stumbles badly. Quick electric fuel pump on, get a brief surge, then stumbles again with loss of significant RPM. Cycle it again quickly while turning back in towards airport and get a brief surge and then the engine DIES. At this point my speed had started to decay while I was trying to troubleshoot at very low altitude, so I abandoned further efforts to relight in order to concentrate on flying.

I have a question, and this is not related to anything but the emergency engine-out procedure you utilized.

I was taught that in the event of an engine failure, you should do the following:
1) Whatever you just did, undo it (if you turned off the boost pump and the engine quit, for example, turn it back on; if you had just switched tanks, switch back; etc.); and, if that fails or you haven't recently "done something", then
2) Mixture rich; fuel boost pump on; switch tanks.

If those don't work, set up for an engine-out landing and execute it.

You say you turned the fuel pump on, then off, then on, etc. Did you switch tanks? Did you enrichen the mixture (or was it already rich)?

Others may have different training on engine-out procedures, and I'd like to hear them, too...so we can all learn what might work and how others were taught to handle this situation.

Sounds like excellent work getting the plane on the ground *under control*...well done.

[jchang10]

To take the thought one step further, i was taught to keep my finger on the boost pump switch for a few seconds after turning it on or off. That way if something does happen, your finger is already there to reverse it. Same thing with fuel selector, keep your fingers on it for a few seconds after.

[krw5927]

So now that the tanks have been removed and inspected visually, can anyone confirm that the tanks were sloshed? Was there evidence of peeling slosh in the visual inspection?

[Tandem46]

Was the cause of engine failure ever determined?

[brooksrv6]

Just for the record, I've seen intermittent stumbling like this on a 172. The cause was a loose electrode tab on the rotor of a slick mag. It would work it's way in and out of position.