Emergency Dead stick landing - Page 5

woodmanrog · #41 10-02-2013, 06:31 AM

Great job flying and writing Ryan. One of the things I like best about owning an experimental is that I can inspect things on my own. I trust only one AP and he flies my plane therefore I know that all that can be inspected and repaired is being done to the best quality standards. I read about a lot of certified aircraft incidents where an AP missed something or messed up, so just turning to a certified aircraft is not necessarily the answer. If your AP flies your plane with his 9 year old son you can bet that every nut and bolt is checked often. (Besides doing this myself)
Kudos,
Woodman

butch · #42 10-02-2013, 09:17 AM

Ryan,

Sent PM

Jim (butch)

RV3bpilot · #43 10-02-2013, 10:09 AM

Great flying skills sir!!! You displayed what it takes to be a great pilot with your quick thinking and reaction. There are many smoking holes out there when someone looses sight of the main isue, "Fly The Aircraft".
I too had one of these moments on July 4th of this year and on my 10 second drop back to the earth I beat up the propeller tips. I was so mad at myself for the minor damage but when the motor is no longer pulling at low altitude all one can do is quickly point the nose down and see where you are going to hit and try to make it graceful.

BSwayze · #44 10-02-2013, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airtractor8

Is the fuel tank in question set up for aerobatics? If so maybe the "flop" tube has had some sort of failure?

I was wondering this same thing. I saw some postings several years ago about how, over time, flop tubes are prone to stiffening and may not lie all the way down in the tank, sucking air along with fuel.

APACHE 56 · #45 10-02-2013, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mel

I think an important thing here that no one seems to want to mention is; When you have a problem, FIND OUT WHAT THAT PROBLEM IS!, before venturing out away from the airport.
Regardless of what the problem is, it needs to be identified.

Since this is posted in the "Safety" section Mel's comment is spot on. One "smart thing to do" would have been to contact an engine guru e.g., Bush, Deakin et al. I had a similar issue with my Skybolt and when I got the plane safely on the ground I contacted Don George of Don George Engines of Orlando. He took the time to dictate a Fault Isolation matrix for me which led to the culprit (pin hole in the servo diaphragm).

I too am glad you are here to write about the incident but your judgment needs calibrating. You'd never dream of telling one of your patients who comes in complaining of chest pains while jogging to "go run around the parking lot and see if we can duplicate the problem."

n801bh · #46 10-02-2013, 04:51 PM

To the OP..................

Congrats on the safe outcome.. I only wish the pilot of N820RV had done the same thing...

AZtailwind · #47 10-02-2013, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MedFlightDoc

Thank you for the kind words. I had waited a full month to post on this as it was very hard to even talk about it, let alone write it up. I was pretty sure I was going to get raked thru the coals by the experts, so some kind words are nice...

I did think of one more thing:
1. Get a glider rating!

Had the same experience in a Whitman Tailwind- Fuel starvation...
Glider experience does help along with keeping emergency skills current.
You have proven yourself as an aviator. Great job.

mculver · #48 10-02-2013, 09:40 PM

Oh boy -- brought shivers to my spine. I was at C29 a couple of years ago and watched a plane depart Runway 09 with the fuel shut off. They made it about 350 feet into the air, and wound up in the chain-link fence of that Lexus dealer right at the end of the runway. Fortunately those guys walked away too.

The plane was a different story.

Low-altitude engine outs are the scariest thing I can think of when it comes to flying. Thanks for writing this up in such detail!

MedFlightDoc · #49 10-03-2013, 04:42 AM

Again, thanks to all for the kind words. I really appreciate it.

As for the emails and PM's about "giving up" on experimentals, I should probably have gone into more detail: it isn't me that is skeptical it is my wife who is having issues right now. She was actually there at the end of session with the FAA FSDO guys and got to meet and talk with them, and the FAA guys also were of the same mind that this isn't solely an issue with experimentals. They had investigated plenty of accidents and incidents with factory built as well...(this was the FAA guys talking to my wife, mull over the implications of some FAA guys defending E-AB!).

Also, to Mr. Stiver (Apache 56): no need to be judgmental, I've already done that to myself more than you could. Several very smart minds were already convinced that this was a fuel pump issue. We would have gone into annual the next day and replaced the one or both of the fuel pumps, and this situation would have happened on the very next flight after annual...or sometime after that (and maybe not as geared up for something bad to happen).

As for your comment about not having people jog around the parking lot who have had chest pain: We actually do this, in a way, all the time in the Emergency Department in a very formalized protocol with cardiology: it's called an "exercise stress test". It's a provocative test to try and stress someone's heart and see if there are any hints of ischemia. If you fail, you go on to cardiac catheterization...
(sometimes done as a dobutamine and/or nuclear medicine stress test depending on the situation, cardiologist, and one's ability to exercise; but the point is that it is meant to be provocative and get your heart rate going. EXACTLY like running around the parking lot).

Which is somewhat analogous to this situation, in a way (my fuel system had an MI). I'd be interested to hear troubleshooting ideas or strategies for a problem that can't be reproduced on the ground and all visual inspections don't find anything amiss?

Everyone now knows how it played out in my situation, but for future reference for others I'd be curious to know what others may have done differently to troubleshoot (no need for snide or judgmental comments), as we all want to learn from others experiences and maybe help someone out in the future who reads this thread.

Thanks again for all the kind comments, I really appreciate it and it has made be feel much better about the situation. Bending an airplane is not a good feeling, although I'm extraordinarily fortunate that no one was hurt (myself included!).

-Ryan in Madison

RickWoodall · #50 10-03-2013, 05:20 AM

In Canada as part of our sign off inspection we must disconnect the fuel line from the engine, and test the flow per minute when boost pump is on. I have heard of many doing this during the annual too.
Why, if you know your boost pump puts out 17gph as an example, this will ensure a year or two later, you are still getting lots of flow, that there are no blockages in fuel lines, filters, etc. A bit of a flush out so to speak. Strain the fuel and return to the tanks. Seems like a good idea as I have heard of slosh and also people who had some proseal or even teflon tape (used in error) get into fuel system. A good system flush out, and of course checking gascolator and fuel strainer in FI systems is wise too. I have and will continue to do this annually. It does not test engine driven pump, but does ensure #2 is good to go. On another note, when I painted my plane, I drained tanks and will likely remove sump drains every year or two and again FLUSH out the tanks. Surprising what can end up in the bottom of the tank over time.