Emergency Dead stick landing

[Mel]

I think an important thing here that no one seems to want to mention is; When you have a problem, FIND OUT WHAT THAT PROBLEM IS!, before venturing out away from the airport.
Regardless of what the problem is, it needs to be identified.

[Arlen]

...new to the RV world....but not to aviation.

I have heard a couple times of fuel being cut off by the collapsing of (non-metal) fuel lines, some of the inner layer coming loose and collapsing into the hose lumen.

Are there such lines (which can age and deteriorate) in the RV-engine 320 systems?

[rocketbob]

This is where an engine monitor that logs data is an extremely valuable asset...the drop in fuel flow would have been logged.

[Don]

Originally Posted by RickWoodall

Dont give up on experimentals. I have been up in a few cessnas....what a step backwards. DONT GO TO THE DARK SIDE!

Let me second that comment and add, I had a similar experience to yours in a Cherokee with one difference...your last flight. One evening I took another pilot up for a flight and the engine quit about 400-500' up after take off and I was looking at a truck stop, I-95, and some scrubby pines for a landing. My initial reaction was denial, the I heard "Oh snap" (or something similar) in my headphones and I immediately started looking for the softest pine tree to plant the Cherokee in. The engine came back on. Hmmm. I gently climbed, turned downwind, kept the pattern tight expecting the engine to quite at any second. It didn't, I landed, and my copilot, an A&P and I looked everything over and found nothing. The A&P suggested vapor lock and flying some more. An hour flight that evening went without a hitch. Over the next week there were two more flights and two more problems. I had had enough and grounded the plane until I found the problem. Eventually I found a blue streak originating from the auxiliary fuel pump. I changed it and everything was fine. Apparently the Facet fuel pump has a rubber bladder and it was leaking, letting air in the fuel line. When the air got to the carburetor, the engine would quit. Ten years later, it hasn't happened again.

My primary point is, avoiding experimental aircraft won't keep you from having similar problems. And the second point for me is, when you get a data point saying there's a problem, look until you find it. My experience convinced me to do that and your experience reinforces that. James Clark also reinforced this point for me (he may not know it though) by phone last year. I was talking to him about a plane I was considering buying and the conversation drifted from the 9A I was considering to RVs in general to flying the RV-1. He mentioned when he took off in RV-1 once, there was a "burp" on the climb out. No big deal and he almost forgot about it. Apparently he and some friends decided to look hard and found a bit of debris in the fuel line (I may be wrong but I know they found something). Without really digging in to the issue and looking, RV-1 might have had a similar problem to yours on the tour.

I sure can't (and don't want) to make the decision to avoid experimental aircraft for you, but I'm not sure you really improve your odds of avoiding mechanical issues if you do.

[Clarkie]

The main point here with this emergency and any other inflight emergency is to do exactly what Ryan did.. FLY THE AIRPLANE. You stall it that low to the ground and it's over guys. Fly the plane.

Here's another point/suggestion.. Ryan mentioned that while trouble shooting he looked up to see his airspeed approaching 60 KTS and immediately pushed the nose over. Great job Ryan and good on you for recognizing the onset of something that would have been very unpleasant. For those of you on the fence about installing AOA in your bird or don't have it yet, if this incident doesn't sell you, I don't know what will. As "cheap" as these units are, it should be required equipment for all of our planes. In Ryan's case, he would've gotten the aural "angle, angle, push" sooner than recognizing he was getting slow (especially in the turn). AOA is a life saver folks. Great piece of equipment. Read Paul Dye's editorial in the current issue of Kitplanes in regards to AOA. Great read.

Congrats again, Ryan on handling this emergency superbly. Glad you're ok.

[David Paule]

Or for a heck of a lot cheaper version, get Van's vane switch stall warning kit. It's like the old stall warning switches on the older Cessnas.

They just work.

Dave

[Neal@F14]

Originally Posted by Arlen

...new to the RV world....but not to aviation.

I have heard a couple times of fuel being cut off by the collapsing of (non-metal) fuel lines, some of the inner layer coming loose and collapsing into the hose lumen.

Are there such lines (which can age and deteriorate) in the RV-engine 320 systems?

Most of us have stainless steel braid covered teflon lines anywhere in the fuel system that needs to flex. These don't collapse internally but can "pinch off" if bent around too tight of a turn radius. Older RVs may still be around with rubber lined fuel hose that can deteriorate with age but hopefully by now most of those have been upgraded to teflon.

[DougJ]

Thanks for posting this, I know it had to be hard to do. For you to step up and bring this out for all of us to read and think about is fantastic, you might be saving someone's backside with this. I'm not going to second-guess anything you did or didn't do, I just appreciate you're sharing it with us.

For me, this is very significant for several reasons:

I have very little single engine airplane time and I already feel like a flying emergency procedure, although I'm getting used to it.

My 1993 vintage RV-6 is of course sloshed. It was done by an A&P/IA builder, and he appears to have done a very good job with it. I have complied with the Vans SB 11-9-13 for sloshed tanks, initially as part the pre-purchase inspection. All looked good and continues to do so. There are no leaks/seeps and there is no slosh compound visible except over the proseal.

I heard some terrible things about slosh, I've seen a bad one and I think how it holds up is VERY dependent on how correctly it was done originally.

We did have a brief power interruption in my RV-6 just after breaking ground on takeoff during the pre-purchase flight with the builder/owner on the controls. With plenty of room to abort and despite my objections he continued the takeoff, of course the engine stumbled again at a point that probably would have put us in the trees had it failed fully. In all of my flying experience, including combat, I've never been so uncomfortable in an aircraft as I was during that event, riding along with the owner/builder as that little piston engine stumbled. Not-in-control-of-the-situation.

We went back through everything again, eliminated the fuel system as the cause, and discovered/corrected ignition problems.

It seriously damaged my confidence in the airplane and made me question if I even wanted to buy an RV. After a successful flight the next day I still had reservations until I took it up by myself. After that all was good and I left Alabama the next morning for California.

You survived, sounds like without injury, a very bad situation. You've jumped right back in the saddle which was very smart of you. You're sharing the unfortunate experience so that you might help someone else. That's the way to make the best of a bad situation. Thanks again.

Doug

[Ironflight]

MedFlightDoc - Great story - check your PM's!

Paul

[MedFlightDoc]

I was not aware of the Service Bulletin from Vans about slosh in the tanks until the FAA FSDO guys called Vans the day after the accident when they came out to investigate. The FSDO guys weren't aware of it either. Neither had my mechanics who had done the pre-buy on this same airplane.

Part of my reasoning for writing this up was to make people aware of it.

-Ryan