AD, Service Bulletin, and the feedback loop

[jjconstant]

I would be very grateful for a safety/maintenance section specifically for "easily/often overlooked inspection items". We've already heard from experienced IAs that "I find lots of x...." where x = something scary like loose jam nuts or missing wing bolts or lots of other things.

We've also seen tons of interest in the sample annual inspection checklists.
We are all fallible. Anything that helps the inexperienced or complacent (we are/were all in inexperienced at one point and are all susceptible to complacency) will help the safety record. Leveraging others' experience is how we gain without pain.

And just to add +1: thanks for the heads up on the jam nuts...I found one loose on the inboard pilot's side elevator. I tightened it up and because I don't know why it came loose, I used a couple of drops of wicking Loctite on each, where the thread enters the jam nut.

I have already added a separate line item to my condition inspection checklist. Now, rather than saying to inspect attach points, jam nuts are a separate line item.

[bkc3921]

Originally Posted by grubbat

Researching Van's site for SB is the first step. However, there are going to be items that come up that Van's may either choose not to list as a SB or the time to make it a SB may take some time. Today is a great example of folks looking for items and actually finding some things. However, you won't find these items in SB for a while.

Yes, VAF is a great resource for information and its occurring right now,.. if you read all the posts. Once this tragic news passes and some time goes by, the motivation to research all the post and read all the enormous information out there from our fellow RV owners is daunting.

Could this information sharing process be organized better? Would that improve the communication? Again, I am not criticizing. I am just using this terrible situation as a catalyst to think outside the box and improve how we find and share information.

Kevin found some things on his airplane in one post. Paul found something in his post. Another found something in another post. Nevertheless, this process will continue over the next several weeks then the intensity will diminish. One thought that I had that I would like to offer is the ongoing maintenance area. Maybe that area could have subcategories for each of the major airframe groups. Elevators, Rudders, tailwheels, wings, flaps, major structures, minor structures, and so forth. I don't know if this would work but it seems that there ought to be a way to share infomation not only for those currently reading this, but for the future RV pilots and owners and potential owners.

Again, just thinking about how to make things better in light of a very difficult past couple of weeks here.
cj

A while back, I posted a suggestion and got nowhere..so I will give it one more shot. VAF is a fabulous resource, but there are now SO MANY posts and posters, finding information on certain topics can be overwhelming.

I would like to suggest (again) that the moderators/leaders of this forum pick out the "top 5" posts on a variety of subjects..some type of "tag" could be placed on the post indicating it as a "best choice" post on a particular topic..I like the ones with pictures, or the ones from certain posters that have expertise or considerable experience in certain areas...so the less experienced people (such as myself) can cut through the fluff and get to the Best of the Best. I realize this would be a lot of work for the moderators, but it would be a great service to the forum..and to the VAF community.

The best posts could be replaced as needed and as information changes. I have complete faith in the moderators to judge the quality of "best posts". Many people simply do not have the time to keep up with this ever growing forum, unfortunately. Yes, its up to each of us to keep abreast of the latest info, but I feel strongly that this would be a step in the right direction. Thanks.

[grubbat]

Aircraft structures are divided up kinda like the dewy decimal systems. We could use the same system. It's been a while since I did component maint but there's no reason the RV couldn't be divided up when making a post. For example, if someone found a crack in a spar on a control surface in the tail group, then those could checked off somehow prior to making the comment, posting the pic, and clicking the submit reply button. Just like the big boys.

[Travelair]

Aviation Maintenance Alerts

http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/a...n_maintenance/

[Low Pass]

This is really disappointing that so many exp-ab builders/pilots are basically wishing for a certified aircraft maintenance process. Sorry, but you just don't get it. Wish for a centralized/federal system, and we may just get it. Think, research, ask, correct. This is how I built and maintain my exp-ab plane.

[Arlen]

Originally Posted by Low Pass

This is really disappointing that so many exp-ab builders/pilots are basically wishing for a certified aircraft maintenance process. Sorry, but you just don't get it. Wish for a centralized/federal system, and we may just get it. Think, research, ask, correct. This is how I built and maintain my exp-ab plane.

Low,

I don't take it that way at all. I see this as a...

"hey-I-found-this-on-my-plane-you-should-check-it-too"

thing.

[Low Pass]

Originally Posted by Arlen

Low,

I don't take it that way at all. I see this as a...

"hey-I-found-this-on-my-plane-you-should-check-it-too"

thing.

Well, maybe I read it wrong. Done that before. But I am sensitive to people wanting to replicate or adopt the FAA maintenance/AD process. I've heard it before and continue to hear it. When I built my plane, and for several years after while flying, no discussion board existed to discuss and collect info. I did it by email, talking to others with RVs and homebuilts, talking to old A&Ps, talking to experienced pilots - and thinking. Things improve and I'm all about that. Just very leery of moving toward the FAA maint/AD world.

Thanks for your comment!

[grubbat]

Originally Posted by Low Pass

This is really disappointing that so many exp-ab builders/pilots are basically wishing for a certified aircraft maintenance process. Sorry, but you just don't get it. Wish for a centralized/federal system, and we may just get it. Think, research, ask, correct. This is how I built and maintain my exp-ab plane.

You missed the point. There is nothing disappointing about improving information flow. I am not advocating a certified maint process. However, there has to be a better way to flow information than what we currently have.

[Ironflight]

OK, I agree with the concept of a centralized database that gathers the collective experience of thousands of RV builders/owners/pilots and makes those lessons-learned available to everyone. It's a good idea, and something that would make the RV world the envy of the rest of the experimental aviation community.

The best thing is - the data already exists! The VAF forums have existed in their current form since early 2005, and the amount of raw information in the archives on these airplanes is astounding. It has been collected - it just has to be organized. So.....if you really want to have something like this, you don't need to start now with people submitting their ideas. (In fact, that would be counter-productive, since many of the experienced contributors have gotten bored answering the same question over and over, and won't contribute again.) What you need to do is mine the existing database.

Yup - sounds like a daunting task - and it is. But if you really want an organized database, you already have it half done - just organize it. You need a dedicated person or team and a plan - that's all. (Grad students come to mind....)

In my previous job, I saw many, many efforts to collect "Lessons learned" databases. The ones that worked best were done by mining existing data, not by telling folks "OK, contribute your ideas". Both methods SHOULD work - but only one does, and it is not a technical problem, is is a sociology problem.

So if you really want this - build it. It's not a bad idea. Just do it.

[RVbySDI]

Originally Posted by Arlen

Low,

I don't take it that way at all. I see this as a...

"hey-I-found-this-on-my-plane-you-should-check-it-too"

thing.

I thought that is what we are currently doing on this forum and specifically on these latest threads.

It seems to me some of these posted thoughts are being driven by the idea that there are RV flyers not following the VAF forums or that one is too busy to spend the time following the VAF forum for these kinds of threads. I am having a difficult time seeing how that aspect of the problem would change if there were some other different mechanism we would attempt to deploy in order to disseminate this important information. This sounds like the proverbial "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink" idea.

Having someone else do the work of flagging something that YOU think is important is always going to be lacking no matter what format it is created in. I have to be the one raising the flag for my needs! Not you! Or anyone else! And what that means to me is that I have to be diligent about THINKING through these kinds of issues. I cannot shortcut the process of evaluating what components, designs, techniques, systems, etc. are safe for my airplane by having someone else tell me what they think I should deem as important.

I know too many pilots who have always flown certificated GA aircraft who simply "kick the tires and light the fires" when it comes to flying their airplane. I believe they develop that attitude based on the fact that the FAA regs dictate that they are not allowed to do maintenance or repairs on their own airplane. Thus they turn those responsibilities over to an IA/A&P to tell them whether things are good to go or not and simply do not concern themselves with whether the airplane truly is safe.

Those with this mindset should be reminded that:
JUST BECAUSE AN AIRPLANE MAY BE LOGGED AS AIRWORTHY DOES NOT MEAN IT IS SAFE!

Forgive me for this thought, but, the above behavior sounds very much like what is being proposed for us here -- That we rely on someone else to tell us, in some new, as yet undefined format, what we should be doing to keep ourselves safe in our airplanes.

Making sure things are safe around me is my job. In fact it is my job 24/7 no matter what I am doing. That goes for when I am driving down the highway next to other drivers texting or talking on the phone, or when I am getting into my airplane to fly off into the sunset. Safety is my responsibility!

Following safety threads on VAF, reading bulletins from VAN's, reading AOPA, EAA, Pilots of America forums or any others I can find that may discuss the safety needs I should pay attention to, talking to fellow RV owners/pilots, talking to trusted mechanics, or making sure I pay attention to stories in the multiple flying magazines I monthly receive are all mechanisms I use to try to keep myself informed on safety issues. Keeping my mind in the game by doing so IS MY RESPONSIBILITY.

Creating a new format for someone to follow will only add to the existing mechanisms. If one chooses not to subscribe to that new format they will miss the point just as surly as those who have currently chosen not to subscribe to this VAF format are missing the point now.

Live Long and Prosper! By doing everything in your power to stay safe!