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09-02-2013, 07:23 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_H
Now this just gets into theory..
Take parts from a wrecked Cessna, Piper, and Mooney. Cobble them together as a Frankenbird. If you can get an FAA or DAR airworthiness sign off, that can be an EAB, right?
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No.
The FAA order specifically prohibits using major portions of certificated aircraft to build an E-AB aircraft.
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Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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09-02-2013, 08:42 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002
No.
The FAA order specifically prohibits using major portions of certificated aircraft to build an E-AB aircraft.
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What he said!
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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09-02-2013, 08:54 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,820
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I agree with Mel and Scott's interpretation of the regs, but DARs do stretch the rules. I used to have a Yak-52 and met another Yak owner who bought a "Yak in the box" and put it back together. He got his DAR to give him an EAB A/W certificate. Mine was experimental exhibition. I never figured out the guy got away with that one.
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09-02-2013, 09:06 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, TX (DFW)
Posts: 1,164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
Personally, I would be far more interested in an RV-12 licensed EAB. I could do anything I want to it and fly it as a Sport Pilot so long as it remains within Light Sport parameters. I would not need a special school certificate to maintain it, which would be gratifying given some of us were happily following Rotax service instructions well before the bad regulatory bargain. The ability (or inability) to sign a condition inspection doesn't hamper a lively trade in all other RV models (100% EAB) so why should I believe it will reduce the value of a good -12?
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Amen! People seem to get so worked up over this, when EVERY other RV ever built (other than RV-12's) are ALL EAB.
The resale of those planes doesn't seem to be a problem. And people also say "well, an EAB has a fly off period of 40-hours, versus only 5-hours on an E-LSA". Again, what's the biggie? Are you going to quit flying your E-LSA RV-12 after five hours? Of course not. So who cares if you spend another 35-hours in the testing / fly off period? Then some folks say "well, you can't take a passenger until the five hours is flown off". That may be the rule, but I've seen this rule broken by folks saying the passenger was necessary for ballast / flight testing. I don't agree with that, but I've seen it with my own eyes.
I say build what you want, and FLY! That's what I'm doing. I'm not worried about resale.
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Gary Robertson
Arlington, TX
RV-12 Built / Sold / Flying
Currently Flying: Cessna Skyhawk 172
Rebuilding a true barn find J-3 Cub
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09-02-2013, 09:14 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel
ELSAs are still in the Experimental category. Any one can perform all maintenance. The repairman certificate only allow one to sign off the condition inspection.
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That's a good point Mel, thanks.
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Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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09-03-2013, 02:04 AM
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: Westerville, OH
Posts: 155
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Many thanks to all who have answered this thread! Lots of information, lots of opinion, and lots of food for thought. I'll stick with ELSA and a couple of taped pieces of string. After all, the ELSA certification says that you built it with all of the parts and all of the techniques called out by Van's; they don't say that you can't add a piece of string here and there...!
Thanks again,
-dbh
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David B. Hill
N76012
RV-12 #0760
Dues paid through 6-2021
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09-03-2013, 02:36 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhill916
After all, the ELSA certification says that you built it with all of the parts and all of the techniques called out by Van's; they don't say that you can't add a piece of string here and there...!
Thanks again,
-dbh
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Ah, but if the extra strings are not in the plans, and the DAR finds them .... 
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rgmwa
RV-12LR 912ULS
120346
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10-09-2013, 10:31 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 247
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Has anyone actually registered the 12 as a EAB? My understanding is that you could never achieve the 51% rule by simply pulling rivets in pre-formed / pre punched aluminum.
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http://jimsrv.blogspot.com
PP - ASEL
Instrument Rating
A&P/IA Rotax iRMT 9 Series Maintenance
EAA Technical Counselor
RV12 Flying.
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10-09-2013, 10:54 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, TX (DFW)
Posts: 1,164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterboy2110
Has anyone actually registered the 12 as a EAB? My understanding is that you could never achieve the 51% rule by simply pulling rivets in pre-formed / pre punched aluminum.
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Absolutely they have. Many examples. Pete (from Jabiru) registered his as E-AB. Then it won the top award for its class last year at Sun-N-Fun. That plane was then sold to Tom V., here on the forums. Oren H. registered his Jabiru RV-12 as E-AB, and then won a major award as OSH this year. Another example is one of our members here installed his own Rotax (he already had it on another plane) and registered as E-AB. And I know I am missing countless others. These just quickly came to mind. Yes, absolutely you can register as E-AB.
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Gary Robertson
Arlington, TX
RV-12 Built / Sold / Flying
Currently Flying: Cessna Skyhawk 172
Rebuilding a true barn find J-3 Cub
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