Formation Flying and the Radio

[JoeGepner]

Hi Guys,

Today I went on a lunch run with three guys from work. We were split between a Cessna Skycatcher and Diamond DA20. I was the PIC in the Skycatcher and my officemate Matt was PIC in the DA20.

On the way back, we flew as a flight of two with me (low time pilot) in lead and Matt (much higher time pilot) as number 2. As lead, I was in charge of the radio calls since Matt was concentrating on separation. Flying was pretty easy for me, I basically just kept my speed, course, and altitude changes slow and gradual, he had the hard job of staying slightly back and low off my left wing.

We landed at a towered airport, and I communicated our initial radio contact as a "flight of 2" and used my tail number of 60594. As we flew the pattern, the tower was referring to us a "60594 Flight". Matt said I did a pretty good job on the radio, but should have been answering the calls back as "60594 Flight" instead of just "60594".

My question for the experts here is do you guys know of any documentation or anything I could take a look at that explains how aircraft flying in formation are supposed to use the radio? This isn't exactly something my instructor covered during my private pilot training last summer.

I found this cool Formation Guidelines pdf on Doug's site here, but it doesn't cover the radio.

[luddite42]

Maybe a little perspective from someone who does NOT fly formation - when approaching to land at an uncontrolled field, don't say "initial" if you are doing an overhead pattern. Yes, I know it's in the AIM. But nobody else in the pattern will know what that means or what the heck you're doing. Flight instructors do not teach students about formation jargon. Just say "X miles out for an overhead upwind runway XX". When you enter the overhead, just say "overhead upwind XX, circle to land". Most pilots will understand that.

[PCHunt]

When you fly in a formation, ATC considers you to be one entity, no matter how big the flight.

Typically, we will request to be called by a flight callsign, such as "Red Flight", or "Nimrod Flight", or your choice. Having a long number in the flight callsign can get tedious.

When "Red Flight" is cleared to land by ATC stating: "Red Flight, runway 27, cleared to land" it means that all members of the flight are cleared to land, and they are responsible for their own runway separation, and normal runway separation rules do not apply.

Using the word "Flight" in your callsign lets ATC know that more than one aircraft are involved under one callsign.

Hope this helps, and I would encourage you to find some local flyers that routinely fly in formation, and pick their brains.

[ronschreck]

Originally Posted by luddite42

Maybe a little perspective from someone who does NOT fly formation - when approaching to land at an uncontrolled field, don't say "initial" if you are doing an overhead pattern. Yes, I know it's in the AIM. But nobody else in the pattern will know what that means or what the heck you're doing. Flight instructors do not teach students about formation jargon. Just say "X miles out for an overhead upwind runway XX". When you enter the overhead, just say "overhead upwind XX, circle to land". Most pilots will understand that.

Rick,

Sorry, I just can't go along with this. What you seem to be saying is that we formation flyers should deviate from standard AIM terminology so those who never bothered to learn the rules can understand us.

In the interest of safety I am always happy to tell another pilot exactly where I am and what I am doing if I think he is confused or unfamiliar with a standard formation landing pattern or terminology and I will even exit the pattern until he lands or departs if I don't think that he fully understands. Also, in the interest of safety I would hope that the same pilot would hurry on home and drag out the AIM and become familiar with the rules of the game.

You may not fly formation yourself, but you operate in the same environment as formation pilots so you must understand the rules that apply at times that you must interact.

[GeneL]

Second what Smokey said! Like what the judge said "ignorance is not a defense". Also please read what Van said in his article about "Casual Formation" (on Van's Aircraft website), bottom line Don't Do It Without Training!!! Not a self taught book learned skill. Be safe.

[JoeGepner]

Thanks guys, I'll get the AIM out and study up.

I should mention that we were flying with roughly half mile separation just for fun. No Blue Angles stuff for us.

[Snowflake]

What Smokey said.

Also: Go to the FAST website (www.flyfast.org) and find the formation flying manual. Read it. It sounds like you're just getting into Formation, which is a great thing... The more people that understand it, the less will be "confused" when others arrive at the airport. Second: get training. It's possible to train yourself to fly in a gaggle, and do so for years without an issue, but getting proper training will teach you what you're missing and better prepare you for emergencies.

[rbibb]

At risk of thread drift this brought up a pet peeve of sorts.

First of all if you hear a call on the radio about something happening at an airport you don't understand you can always ask over the radio for clarification as in "Flight XYZ, where exactly are you and what are your intentions again? - Airplane NABCD - left base, etc."

Now here is the peeve. We've all heard it, most have even probably done it. Remote airport - on common CATF like 122.8. Someone shooting T&Gs announcing in full call sign position reports at every step along the way. So here's the peeve. If there isn't any traffic at the airport I think once around the patch is probably enough. Why? Because you are congesting a frequency that is used where I live by about 2 dozen airports within radio range at pattern altitude. Also, and here is where the speculation and obvious personal bias comes in, most often the person doing the play-by-play seems more concerned with making the radio calls than actually looking for traffic or flying the plane.

The real reason this is important is because the guy you need to be most concerned with is the guy who didn't hear your radio calls. He is in a non-radio Cub, or Ultralight. Or maybe he tuned the wrong frequency (or maybe like what happened to me recently he inadvertently hit the freq. flip-flop switch on his stick and didn't realize he was on the wrong frequency.

Since see and avoid are the rules of the game its ore important to keep ones head out the cockpit looking for something you don't expect to be there than counting down to the time you can make your AIM perfect position report. Most hearing it won't care and the ones that need to might not be able to.

I learned this lesson the hard way almost being run down by a straight in Commanche who passed six feet above the Champ I was flying as a 20 hour student. This "gentleman" had made all the radio calls - announced his intention to enter a straight in approach even after being advised on his initial call on Unicom of a "Champ shooting T&Gs in the pattern". I'm sure he felt his radio call was his duty and obligation. Flying the airplane, see and avoid, not so much. Wonder if his widow would have received comfort knowing he was an expert on the radio. Predictably this guy wasn't even sorry after being informed upon landing of how close he came to dying since he never saw me. I look long and hard before turning final ever since.

I love the radio - it is a great tool. But VMC flight demands eyes outside the cockpit whether VFR or IFR at the time.

I think this hit a nerve or I've had too much coffee.

Richard

[fehdxl]

Originally Posted by JoeGepner

we were flying with roughly half mile separation

With my educational hat on, half mile separation affectionately known as a gaggle, not a formation.

Best,

Jim

[JoeGepner]

Thanks Rob, that is exactly what I was looking for.

I will definitely get some training when I complete my RV. Formation flying seems like another fun and challenging way to become a better (and safer!) pilot. One of the things I love about flying is that there is always more to learn.

In the short term, I have a feeling my flying time will be getting less and less as I start buying more and more expensive parts for my airplane. Maybe I'll win the lottery...