Oops! Forgot the two R-918 parts on the bottom of the rudder!

tegwilym · #1 08-29-2013, 01:34 PM

It's been a while since I posted a question or shared one of my mishaps. I think that means I have learned a lot in the last weeks and doing well.
I have my rudder riveted together along the spar and ribs, and was reading up on other builder sites how to do the tricky trailing edge. I then had a sudden "oh CRA@P" moment and realized that I forgot to include the two fairing strips on the bottom.
I've got rivet removal down now to less than 3 minutes without damage or elongating holes, so this is an easy fix overall.
My dilemma:
The manual says to "be careful installing the blind rivets since they are hard to remove". I haven't removed one of these yet, how hard are they?
I was wondering if I could just leave those in place, and remove all the standard rivets, then cut a notch or "lightening hole" and put the part around the rivet, and just leave it in place?
Would that be a problem? The fairing would still be held on the flange in all the same places, but just the last one wouldn't be connected on the rudder. I think that should be fine, but looking for opinions.

At least I did read another builder has done the same thing searching builder logs! Parts in question:

Is it cool to cut a hole or notch and just put this around these two last blind rivets?

Thanks for the help!

Tom

MarkW · #2 08-29-2013, 01:40 PM

Most people glass in the bottom rudder fairing. If you are planning on that then all those rivets will not be necessary. You could drill out half and then drill the opposite half hole in the strip to a large enough size to fit over the shop head of the rivets that stay. If you are glassing you will not near as much support.

Mike S · #3 08-29-2013, 01:41 PM

This blind rivet should not be a problem to remove at all.

First, cut off the inside with a pair of side cutters, then drill out the head.

If you try to drill out the head first, the drill will walk all over when it hits the steel mandril.

Another way to do it is to use a pin punch and drive the mandril through first then drill----but that is a good way to bend a skin when you are pounding on the punch.

ChiefPilot · #4 08-29-2013, 01:42 PM

I'd drill out the rivets and just do it right. Be careful while removing the existing rivets and you should have no problem.

The blind rivets are a problem when you can get access to the back side to hold them - they will just spin around in the hole. In this situation, however, you probably have room to grab the backside with pliers or similar to hold them in place.

I should know, I did the exact same thing on my rudder many moons ago :-)

tegwilym · #5 08-29-2013, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkW

Most people glass in the bottom rudder fairing. If you are planning on that then all those rivets will not be necessary. You could drill out half and then drill the opposite half hole in the strip to a large enough size to fit over the shop head of the rivets that stay. If you are glassing you will not near as much support.

Wow, all kinds of advice in just a few minutes. Thanks.

Mark, I do like your idea of just working around. Yes, we will probably glass the fairing when we get to that point. I'll remove all the flush rivets of course and it will just be these last two that I'm thinking of just going around. I just worry about messing up the skin since it's a thin area there trying to pull out these. I often read about rivet problems that are better to leave alone than try to remove and make things even worse!

RV7AJeremy · #6 08-29-2013, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefPilot

I'd drill out the rivets and just do it right. Be careful while removing the existing rivets and you should have no problem.

The blind rivets are a problem when you can get access to the back side to hold them - they will just spin around in the hole. In this situation, however, you probably have room to grab the backside with pliers or similar to hold them in place.

I should know, I did the exact same thing on my rudder many moons ago :-)

I agree, just drill them out and do it right. It's not that many rivets. I have an extra rudder skin since I tried to back rivet the stiffeners without the back rive plate behind them. $45 skin, $55 in shipping = $100 down the drain

wee all make mistakes, just fix it the right way. Good luck.

tegwilym · #7 08-29-2013, 03:25 PM

I'm working on removing all the non-blind rivets then will stare at it some more and figure out which fix to try. Remove or notch the part.

Tom

Steve Melton · #8 08-29-2013, 03:28 PM

I did this on one side because the doubler was between not on the inside and resulted in poor fairing fit. It's easily doable, just take your time.

tegwilym · #9 08-31-2013, 12:05 PM

I got a reply from Vans on this. They said they haven't done something like this before, but said it shouldn't be a problem.

I'm still debating about removing or notching. I did order some more of those blind rivets from Van's since the kit only came with about 8 of them. I'm working on the elevator now, so I put the rudder aside for now while I think about it.

tegwilym · #10 09-03-2013, 08:49 PM

I read a few things about removing blind rivets and practiced on some scrap I had. I'm not sure what all the fuss was about on removing these. They came cleanly out with not problem.

- Found a nail that would fit in the hole in top of the rivet.
- Used the grinder to remove the point and grind down to a flat surface.
- A few taps on the nail in the top hole of the rivet, and the center popped out the bottom with no problem.
- I used the same size bit (#35) as the hole and drilled down the middle. The factory head popped off on it's own.
- Tap it a few times with the rivet punch or the side of the shop head underneath, and it came out cleanly!

I put the R-918's in and riveted them in place, and blind riveted in the ends. All done, and properly done as the manual said. Easy EASY!!

BUILD ON!

Tom