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08-20-2013, 12:52 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,820
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I fill my tank with 5 gal jugs and have always been able to hear the change in pitch when the filler neck starts to fill. I like the idea of the gage, but see no compelling reason to go through the pain and suffering to install it.
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08-20-2013, 12:59 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Martinsville, IN
Posts: 2,326
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Thank you gentleman. That confirms my thought process as well. I'm glad Van's added it as an option but it's not a biggie for me so I'll probably forego the installation.
__________________
Randy Pflanzer
Greenwood, IN
www.pflanzer-aviation.com
Paid through 2043!
Lund fishing Boat, 2017, GONE FISHING
RV-12 - Completed 2014, Sold
427 Shelby Cobra - Completed 2012, Sold
F1 EVO - partially completed, Sold
F1 Rocket - Completed 2005, Sold
RV-7A - Partially completed, Sold
RV-6 - Completed 2000, Sold
Long-EZ - Completed 1987, Sold
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08-20-2013, 01:04 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, TX (DFW)
Posts: 1,164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch757
I ordered my finish kit a couple months ago and it arrived yesterday, 8/15/13. The location of the gauge is very close to JB's....6" aft of forward edge and 7" in from left edge of tank.
Additionally, the original sight gauge was there but had been covered with aluminum plate on the inside and sealed with proseal.
I can forward photos to anyone wishing to have a look, but can't seem to add them to this post.
Mitch Garner
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I'm about to order my interior kit. I wonder if they told Abby about this new addition? Granted I don't have the Moeller gauge installed, but I just ordered one. I'd hate to see it covered up by Abby's interior
I've had my finish kit for about 8-months, and mine is like Randy's: it has the sight glass, and also has the sending unit in the front panel to feed the Dynon.
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Gary Robertson
Arlington, TX
RV-12 Built / Sold / Flying
Currently Flying: Cessna Skyhawk 172
Rebuilding a true barn find J-3 Cub
Last edited by txaviator : 08-20-2013 at 01:20 PM.
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08-20-2013, 01:04 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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I have always been able to hear the sound change while filling the RV-12 tanks... as long as it is not a noisy environment.
I have been in situations while traveling cross country, where the ramp was noisy from a jet or King Air, or the fuel truck engine and pump noise was quite loud, and it was impossible to hear when the tank was getting full.
This is the primary reason for implementing the modification.
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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08-20-2013, 01:16 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,820
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I agree background noise can make it hard to hear. Use 4.5 gal/ hr as an estimate of fuel used and go easy filling the last gallon. Should minimize the spilling issue if you can't hear.
Got to repeat myself on the preflight issue. Just stick a nylon tube (like the pitot static lines) down the filler neck, put your thumb over the end and get a sounding. Can't beat simplicity!
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08-20-2013, 01:35 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, TX (DFW)
Posts: 1,164
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HEADS UP, FOLKS: Interior Kit
I just spoke to Abby @ Flightline. When I ordered my finish kit, I got grey / pewter seats. I asked Abby to sew the 'RV-12' into the seats, in a dark blue thread. She did this, and it looks awesome.
Fast-forward to today: I was online about to order my full interior / carpet kit from Vans. It crossed my mind that some folks have the Moeller gauge now as standard equipment (in the latest finish kits), some have added the gauge according to JB's drawing, and yet some of us are adding the gauge based on the new dimensions from the Vans factory-included version. Before I called Vans to order the interior, I called Abby to remind her that I would like to request the 'EXPERIMENTAL' to be sewn in the same dark blue thread as she did on my seats.
I mentioned the new Moeller gauge to Abby and she had not heard that this was now a standard feature from Vans. In addition, she asked me about the optional stiffener kit for the front sides of the fuselage. I told her that I had done this stiffener upgrade too, and tried to explain to her how it was installed. My point is that if you are about to order an interior, I'd wait a few days! Abby said she needed to call Vans about the dimensions on the stiffener pieces (some have them and some have not installed them), and she was now going to ask them about the standard Moeller gauge.
I'm going to wait a few weeks before I order my interior. If Abby doesn't yet have the dimensions to sew in the features, I'd have front side panels that won't fit (due to the stiffeners I've added),and most importantly, I wouldn't be able to see my new Moeller gauge unless Abby knows where to sew the circle. Her tank carpeting would cover it up right now!
Just an FYI if anyone was about to order an interior kit. Abby knows about the gauge now that I told her, but she was going to call Vans for further data.
__________________
Gary Robertson
Arlington, TX
RV-12 Built / Sold / Flying
Currently Flying: Cessna Skyhawk 172
Rebuilding a true barn find J-3 Cub
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08-21-2013, 10:37 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SC & CA
Posts: 907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NASA515
I like the Moeller gage, and consider it a useful aid during the fueling process ---- BUT, ---- not enough to drain the tank, remove it, open it up, and go through the cutting, drilling, sealing, pressure testing, reinstallation process.
After running an estimated 325 gallons of fuel through N737G, I just don't think it's any big deal. If my wife is around, she gives me a heads-up on the quantity. When I'm by myself - like yesterday - I've got the whole process pretty much down pat, and can run it right up to almost full without any problem, and then squeeze in the little extra to top it off (which the auto gas stations tell you not to do) by just listening at the filler port. I've got the gurgle sound figured out too.
I'm dubious as to the value of checking in-flight. If you have a quantity problem, and it's not going through the engine, then there must be a big leak somewhere. With the tank right behind you, and the lines right under you, I'm a thinking there would be something to tip you off if that was the case.
I DO lament the loss of the sight glass holes however. I have no problem seeing the fuel level - if you do, just shake the airplane a little and you can see the level bounce around.
I agree with Scott, however (you see Scott - we DO agree sometimes....), I firmly believe in visually confirming the fuel level on any airplane - be it a Cessna 172, or a Cherokee, or the thousands of Boeings I've fueled over many years. There have been more than enough fuel exhaustion accidents due to gauging errors, to have made me a believer, and tolerate the doggone fuel running down my arm from a dripstick. Yuk!
Without the sight glass holes, you're totally dependent on two invisible systems - a mechanical gage and a computerized one, both vulnerable to errors - a much less robust system. I like to SEE the gas. Like the movie line "Show me the money" - for me, it's "Show me the gas."
Bob Bogash
N737G
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I've reached the same conclusion. I'm going to pass on the Moeller gage mod. Just calibrate the sight gage every two gallons with a sharpie. Before fueling read the fuel level and calculate the gallons to add. About .5 gallons before reaching the calculated top off quantity to add, slow the refill rate until reaching top-off. I also like having the sight gage as a built-in dip stick.
__________________
Tom Valenzia
RV8 (Sold)
RV12 Jabiru 2200 Powered (Sold)
Dues contributor since 2007
Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all of them yourself...Anonymous
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08-21-2013, 02:28 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 1,365
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Fuel tank mods
I agree with the logic of the above two posts. However, if you have to open the fuel tank for cause, like to do the tank upgrade SB, or to fix something else, then going ahead with the Moeller gauge at that time is a no-brainer.
I installed my Moeller when I did the fuel tank SB, and I left the sight glass because I like to see the fuel also. The Moeller is mainly useful when refueling.
Tony
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Tony
E-LSA RV-12 ULS
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08-21-2013, 05:38 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Benton City, WA
Posts: 201
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believe me that I will take the sight glass out if I have to pull the tank out again. Have those screws leak on two separate occasions and with only 60 hrs of flight time  . Hopefully the sealant I put on the exterior of the tank screws will not leak anymore.
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Harold Irvine
N912HM RV-12 Flying.
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08-21-2013, 06:26 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 838
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Simple sight gauge calibration
If you search on sight gauge you'll find my post from a couple of years ago (09-11-2011) with the info on this simple sight gauge readout. It's easy to check the fuel level and cross-check that against the Dynon before ever climbing into the bird. As note above, gently rocking the airplane makes it easy to see where the fuel level is.
If your sight gauge isn't leaking (mine's been good for 200 hours) why would you go to all the work to install a more complex system that increases the probability of failure?
Wayne 120241/143WM

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