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  #71  
Old 08-05-2013, 01:02 PM
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randyintejas randyintejas is offline
 
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Default A RedNeck goes to OSH

YES, I WAS There! .. and one of the 1st things I did (Wednesday late afternoon after noon arrival ) was head to the Van Tent. It was busy and I was helped. I told Gary?? I was already a builder and he did the best he could to answer my questions while attempting to keep others from climbing all over the aircraft! Considering, I think he did a pretty good job. Went in the tent and purchased a hat for the wife and shirt for my daughter (both with me!) and the gratitude from the staff poured over the counter. Heck, they even stuffed extra stuff into the bag for FREE! No real glitz but good folks selling a great product.
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  #72  
Old 08-05-2013, 01:20 PM
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This thread is incredible. The group has not only steadfastly defended Vans honor with the blind fervor reminiscent of a religious cult, you are willing to run off a potential customer while doing it...

All because someone made the mistake of suggesting Van could do better in the marketing department.

I happen to agree. I met the Vans gang just once a few years ago, and guess what; I found them rude and arrogant.

I can't help but wonder how things would turn out if Van comes to the show with a new and improved presentation next year - I imagine most of you would flip 180 degrees and Van would be lauded as a marketing genius.
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  #73  
Old 08-05-2013, 01:26 PM
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1. Aluminium allergy.
2. Fear of clecos.
3. Irrational dislike of peeling plastic off of surfaces.

Any one of those will sound better than "I didn't build an RV because their OSH booth was lame city".

It was a big budget year too, what with the new tent sign...
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  #74  
Old 08-05-2013, 01:26 PM
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Bill_H Bill_H is offline
 
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Holy Cow! Lighten up folks! I love the product (built an RV-12) but a bit of gentle criticism about the booth presence shouldn't result in return artillery fire! The 2 times I went to the Vans booth before I started on The -12 I also felt a bit ignored. Not due to fighting a crowd for attention either! Yes, we engineers are somewhat introverted but that applies to both the people working at the booth as well as the people that are potential customers visiting! I found going to the presentation (at OSH) was more informative than the booth experience.

Not one person in this thread offering criticism said that what they wanted was glamour, glitz, or anything "more expensive!" Just somewhat of an attitude adjustment, and a bit of a different "experience". It costs a LOT of money to do a booth at OSH. Make the most of that for maximum return. Some regularly scheduled "getting started" basic info presentations. All that takes is a row of folding chairs! Maybe one titled "WIVES - MAKING THE MOST OF THIS OBSESSION" or something like that - a lighter side. Extol the welcoming Vans community. Mention the VAF and the huge number of detailed builder blogs (which is actually how I made my decision.). Not everyone considering building an RV has access to Oregon - or even to a local EAA chapter or fellow RV builder.

Information, presented positively and confidently, is powerful. The potential customer does not necessarily know what to "ask." This is not about a bigger booth, models, or anything like that. The primary reason for the booth is not to be a gathering point for existing customers, it is to generate new business. Focus on meeting that need and doing the things that will achieve that result. Make use of the fact that experienced builders gather there! A signuo sheet with cell numbers could match up people who want to build an RV-X with people who have one there and at happy to discuss the experience.

Some brainstorming would generate dozens of ideas - that don't cost ANYTHING more than the existing booth presence!!! We all want Vans to be successful and the community to expand. I am astounded at the defensive and derisive reaction in this thread to some slight criticism clearly meant to generate improvement, not just to be snarky and NOT made by people that do not like the product! All this stuff about Cirrus et. al. is an irrelevant straw man.

When you work a booth (and I have done that at engineering trade shows) it is not necessarily a pleasant experience. To do it well a technical type may have to leave their comfort zone, tired or not. I just had to learn to deal with it, because it's my job for that event. Drink some coffee, put on a smile, and be outgoing - through clenched teeth if necessary!

Vans does LOTS OF THINGS EXACTLY RIGHT! I don't think that the booth experience is one of them. And in saying that I would not appreciate being told I am unsuited to be in this community! (And also, I have occasionally posted something I immediately wished I had not - usually on that cosmic waste of time known as Linked-In!)

Sorry to ramble. Bill H. N412BR "Sweetie" RV-12, Sport Aviation Magazine article Nov 2012 and **** proud of it !
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  #75  
Old 08-05-2013, 01:53 PM
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And don't forget folks, RVs matters in general are presented in the AV and SNF forums such as "RV12......", "RV fiberglass....", "So you want to build an RV....", "Side by side RVs", etc. Not all are presented by Vans but are RV specific and a great place to ask question and meet people away from the hectic, stuffy, "rude" Vans tent.
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  #76  
Old 08-05-2013, 02:03 PM
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RVbySDI RVbySDI is offline
 
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Default My take; from a fellow family member!

I have a somewhat unique take on this whole discussion.

You see, I had the experience of having a newly minted RV9A damaged at a certain tornado event not 3 months after coming out of the paint shop. SnF 2011 will forever be tattooed on my brain as one of the most depressing events of my life. To come out to the airfield after the storm and see my beloved plane slammed against another with damage to its wing that was not going to be trivial to repair was just about too much. But one of the things that showed me I was a part of a family happened during that terrible tornado. After spending a few hours attempting to get repairs started I had a personal visit from Van, Ken Kruger and Jay Pratt. Actually it was a personal visit they made to each one of us RV owners who had sustained damage. They were walking around discussing with each of us owners the damage we had each sustained. They spent as much time as needed looking over my airplane and evaluating the extent of the damage and what needed to be done to repair it. I did not see any other kit manufacturer doing this at all. Perhaps they were but I did not see them out and about the way Van was. To add to their support, Van announced to the world that they would provide replacement materials and parts at a cut rate price drastically below their cost to any of us owners with damaged planes from that tornado. They went far beyond what was ever expected of them to help us out. I will be forever grateful for their attitude and action during that time.

Truthfully, I had some similar thoughts that the OP had prior to my incident with the 2011 SnF tornado when I would go to the Van tent. I saw some of the behavior being discussed in this thread. However, I think most of that can be chalked up to the long hours of manning those booths in hot and tiring conditions. On the other hand though, I have also had one of their engineers walk with me over to the ECi booth at SnF several years ago when I was building to discuss the cowling requirements I would need in order to successfully mount a non-standard IO-340 with forward facing cold air induction on a 9A that he clearly did not think would fit. Even so, he was willing to spend a few minutes out of his busy day at that show to iron out some details about a build he had no involvement with other than the fact I was building one of their kits.

I think it important to recognize that these folks, no matter how much they may be exposed in the spot light of attention at a trade show, are still very much normal human beings like everyone else. As others have stated: Maybe if you were to man their position for a day you may come to have a different understanding of what it takes to deal with these shows.

I agree there could possibly be some additional or different marketing techniques that could be added or altered. Perhaps they will do so in the future. It is my belief though that, at present, they see their product as a self-selling proposition. There are so many unpaid salesmen, as Jay has mentioned, that they do not need a lot of bells and whistles at their booth to make a sale.

To the OP, hope you are able to get what it is you are looking for in a future project. If it is a Cub, you will have a blast. If it is an RV, you will have a blast. If it is anything else, you will have a blast. It is for you to decide and you to achieve. And, quite frankly, your accomplishment in building an airplane, no matter what type it is, will ultimately be what will make it a blast.

Live Long and Prosper!
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Last edited by RVbySDI : 08-05-2013 at 02:07 PM.
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  #77  
Old 08-05-2013, 02:21 PM
Duffer Duffer is offline
 
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Default Volunteers?

My thoughts...I would think it a pleasure to talk to prospective builders about building an RV. Many who have participated in this thread already do at the drop of a hat, and proudly wear the logo. I would also think it an honor to volunteer a couple of hours per AV or SNF at the tent to help answer questions to someone interested. Thanking the staff with a hello and a hand shake for a great product is great - helping with an insider's look may be gold, both for the prospect and for Vans.

Besides, two hours at the tent would probably provide enough good/bad/ugly stories to last the rest of the week. Of course while volunteering, someone is probably changing a baby on your horizontal stabilizer (oops - wrong thread).
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  #78  
Old 08-05-2013, 03:32 PM
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N355DW N355DW is offline
 
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Default Wow

I too, cannot believe some of the responses I am reading here here. The OP offered some constructive criticism on how Vans might improve marketing, mainly to spouses of the female persuasion, was pretty well attacked from all sides, and now we even have a forum moderator telling them to go elsewhere, they wouldn't be welcome in the "Van's family". Really? I never realized joining a new "family", or anyone else's approval whatsoever was a requirement for kit plane ownership. I sure as heck did not choose my RV because I wanted to be part of a group, though I don't mind hanging out with friendly pilots who share my interests. I chose it because it fit's my mission profile more perfectly than any other plane on the market. I don't suppose I will be welcome in the "family" after these remarks, but I'm keeping the plane.

Lighten up is right. Van's doesn't need any of us defending their business practices, they are the biggest and most successful kit aircraft company around, I bet they can take it!

Or leave it as they choose. Maybe they have enough business they don't care. But if they are anything like most successful people I know, they are never satisfied with "business as usual" , and are always looking for ways to improve things. So I bet they don't mind a little constructive criticism nearly as much as some of you folks seem to.

I've been by the Van's booth at S&F several times, as a current builder, and can attest to some of the complaints myself, particularly being completely ignored, even when some of those working there were free. Whether or not they need to spend more money presenting a product that obviously sells itself pretty well is completely up to Van's. However, if I worked with or for Van's, I would certainly pay attention to any complaints about rude behavior, or suggestions about how to improve initial customer relations. That costs absolutely nothing, except a little effort. As someone who, by myself, has displayed my hand made musical instruments at three or four day long shows, I can certainly sympathize with being tired at the end of a show, answering the same questions hundreds of times, all while listening to the cacophony of several instruments being played at various other displays as well as mine all day long. I too, have a good product and a waiting list of customers, and I don't spend a lot of money for a fancy display as some other builders do, but I certainly remain as personable and friendly as I possibly can, and I try to keep an eye out for other potential customers in the background while I chat with current ones. And if I found I could not keep up with the crowd, or found myself too tired and cranky, I would spend the money, not for fancy trappings, but to hire people to help me.
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  #79  
Old 08-05-2013, 04:23 PM
MLock MLock is offline
 
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I have been watching and reading the various opinions expressed by folks about how we, as Van's employees, conduct ourselves at the various venues we attend.

First, let me say that if anyone has ever been offended, felt unwelcome or in any way been put off by us out-front folks, we do sincerely apologize. Our intent has always been to be friendly and outgoing, being the informational gateway to the world of RVs.

At the smaller shows we attend, it is easier to approach someone who is meandering around our display because there are fewer people to attend to. At the larger ones like Oshkosh and Sun & Fun, our attention generally gets centered on those who engage us. There were countless times this past week where I approached some folks to see if I could help them. Just like the other Van's representatives. Yes, there are a number of people who require that any interaction be initiated by us. It is unfortunate that we can't always recognize this because there are so many "looky-loos" who wander thru and pause with only a casual or even non-existent interest. Separating the two types is difficult at best. Just like we want to talk to anyone and everyone who is even mildly interested, we want to leave those who are not interested alone, just like they would prefer. Personally, I like exploring the booths and displays on my own. If I have a question, I'll ask. Other than that, I'd rather be left alone.

Glitz may get your attention, but honest information about a top notch product makes the sale. As far as marketing goes, I think the largest investment Van's has made over the past few years is me. My title is East Coast Representative. Not East Coast Salesman. I dare say the word salesman is not to be found in the job description of any employee at Van's. We don't want to push anyone into an RV. Our sole purpose at shows is to open the door and guide you into the world of RVs. Let you see for yourself what a wonderful and fulfilling adventure this phenomena can be.

We all truly love what we do at Van's and at the shows. We try our best to be all things to all people. But we are people ourselves.
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  #80  
Old 08-05-2013, 04:28 PM
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LettersFromFlyoverCountry LettersFromFlyoverCountry is offline
 
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Other than signage and there wasn't a suite somewhere with free booze, it's not clear what the complaint is except that Van's isn't Cirrus. I'm not aware that anyone said they were rude at the tent. I'm not aware that any questions weren't answered. I'm not aware that anyone has provided any exact transcription of any exchange with the Van's tent.

So what exactly is the problem that's got people worked up?

What is it you're looking for exactly?
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