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07-18-2013, 01:49 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Independence, OR
Posts: 316
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Bruce, you will love the -12. My background was all "traditional" aircraft until I went with my CT 6 years ago, which I have enjoyed.
My -12 is not done yet but I can tell you that after several experiences in my neighbors -12 that the -12 handles much better than the CT plus it out runs and out climbs it.
Sure, it won't match the Bonanza but rest assured, your flying enjoyment is not over.
__________________
John Horn (donated for 2020)
Independence, OR
LSRM-A, CFII
Rotax Service, Maintenance, and Heavy Maintenance Trained
Building an RV-12, N7878H reserved
Flying a Flight Design CTSW
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07-18-2013, 08:39 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Marshall TX (KASL)
Posts: 1,783
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I went from a V-35 to the RV12. You are going to FLOOOOOOAAAAAAATTTTTT until you get used to the very slow approach speeds! I would advise adding the AOA mod you find here http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=34040. Starting on page 2. You might even have get the factory to do it for you, takes $12 in parts and maybe an hour to install if you do it while building - maybe 2 hours afterwards. The Skyview has AOA capability built in, just needs the sensor line screwed in. Also have them cut the hole in the tank for the Moeller fuel gauge if they will or just install it. Vans has said for those of us that are building, that you can cut the hole and fabricate a cover plate as if it is a repair, then easily slip in the gauge after certification - 5 minute job. I Miss the Bonanza for some things but LOVE the 12!
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07-18-2013, 08:43 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 291
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Bill:
Thanks! I appreciate your input. I will miss the Bonanza after all those years and hours but it's time that I not go fast and high with three other people. I look forward to the RV12. I was a CFI (as a hobby) for about ten years and I got used to every other airplane there is, it seems...twins and all. Then we had five tail draggers and our son still has two. I am looking forward to flying the RV....a lot. It's an amazing airplane from its numbers and undoubtedly better than that once it's been flown.
BB
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07-19-2013, 07:47 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 291
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Bill:
All I can say is WOW!
BB:-)
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07-19-2013, 10:47 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Independence, OR
Posts: 316
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Bruce,
I vote for the AOA but remember, you are buying a "factory" built SLSA as opposed to the "homebuilt" ELSA most of us have.
This means that unless the AOA was on the option list and your's didn't come with it, you will need factory approval. That goes for any modification you want to make that wasn't on the option list.
Also, unlike the ELSA that can be inspected by the owner with a 16 hour course, SLSA's require the 120 hour course, or an A&P, for annual condition inspections.
These things may not be relevant to your situation, but all -12 SLSA purchasers need to be aware.
__________________
John Horn (donated for 2020)
Independence, OR
LSRM-A, CFII
Rotax Service, Maintenance, and Heavy Maintenance Trained
Building an RV-12, N7878H reserved
Flying a Flight Design CTSW
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07-19-2013, 02:09 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Marshall TX (KASL)
Posts: 1,783
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For S-LSA are STCs required for mods like these? Some mods are so minor a certified mechanic can do them without an STC. I expect these might qualify - things like adding a power port for headphones or a GPS, that kind of thing. Then come STC mods ("field approval?") then what - some special FAA regional STC process ? Or is that a "major modification" thing? I forget the order... And of course. The FAA has recently been encouraging installation of AOAs on certified aircraft. Which is sooooooo simple on a Dynon-equipped RV12.
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07-19-2013, 02:54 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Independence, OR
Posts: 316
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For the LSA world there are no STC's. And, just because an A&P has done certain minor mod's hundreds of times, he can't do it to an SLSA unless the manufacturer approves it through the manual or an LOA (Letter of Approval). These can take the form of a fleet wide LOA or they can be more confining.
Forget much of what you know as it applies to "traditional" aircraft regulation wise. The maintenance manual for an SLSA will spell out tasks that can be done and by who - LSRM, A&P etc. If it is not in the book, then it is a major repair which the manufacturer must define method, materials, and who can do the repair.
I would hope that Vans would issue fleet LOA's for such things as AOA, canopy locks, parking brakes, etc.
Technically, adding power ports would require an LOA. Adding a panel mount radio, GPS, instruments, etc require an LOA.
Many won't like what I just posted but I think you will find it is correct.
__________________
John Horn (donated for 2020)
Independence, OR
LSRM-A, CFII
Rotax Service, Maintenance, and Heavy Maintenance Trained
Building an RV-12, N7878H reserved
Flying a Flight Design CTSW
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07-19-2013, 03:32 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,769
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Mr. Sandpiper is correct. In many ways SLSA rules are stricter than certified aircraft.
The one way in which you can do mods without factory approval would be to re-certificate the aircraft as an ELSA under 21.191(i)(3).
After that, factory restrictions are removed, but the aircraft may no longer be used for compensation.
And it would most likely, depending on the prospective buyer, reduce the resale value of the aircraft.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
Last edited by Mel : 07-19-2013 at 03:36 PM.
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07-19-2013, 03:54 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SC & CA
Posts: 907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel
Mr. Sandpiper is correct. In many ways SLSA rules are stricter than certified aircraft.
The one way in which you can do mods without factory approval would be to re-certificate the aircraft as an ELSA under 21.191(i)(3).
After that, factory restrictions are removed, but the aircraft may no longer be used for compensation.
And it would most likely, depending on the prospective buyer, reduce the resale value of the aircraft.
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IMO, unless you are planning to use the aircraft for compensation, I believe the much better value is to look for a well built ELSA or EAB LSA. As previously stated, you have much more flexibility with mods and can purchase these aircraft for at least $20-30k below SLSA prices. Hire someone like Mel to conduct the pre-purchase and if it passes muster...you hit a home run.
__________________
Tom Valenzia
RV8 (Sold)
RV12 Jabiru 2200 Powered (Sold)
Dues contributor since 2007
Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all of them yourself...Anonymous
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