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  #51  
Old 08-24-2006, 08:43 AM
John C's Avatar
John C John C is offline
 
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Location: Moundridge, KS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N523RV
John,

What is your sink rate on short final at 65mph and what RPM are you carrying? I've found that in my FP 9A that if I get below 70 IAS on final my sink rate gets pretty high and my flare gets pretty nose high in order to break it. I try to keep it right at 70 all the way down final with no power and bleed it off as I cross the numbers. I tried doing 65mph approaches but had a tendency to 'plop' it on a bit and the nose got too high in the flare to break the sink rate. Probably need to go out and do some more practice at the slower speeds some time.
Matthew, the use of 70 and bleeding off the airspeed over the numbers works well for me also. I don't pay a lot of attention to sink rate and it moves around as I adjust speeds. At 70, I seem to be getting about 400-500 fpm on the legs and 500-600 in the turns. AT 65, I get another 100-150 feet per minute. I will watch more carefully next good day and report back. On final at either 65 or 70, the airplane will tend to pick up sink rate going below 100 feet. I will be bleeding off speed, lessening the sink rate, to be at below 60 over the threshold at 10-20 feet, then hold the nose on the horizon to let it settle. I do that for the practice. With Pax on board, I aim for the numbers instead of a few feet past the threshold and if the airplane settles a little will touch down in the end stripes.

I will plop more when I am using 65 rather than 70 but they are getting fewer and fewer. If the sink rate is picking up, bump the power to help out.
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RV-9A 90512 N6699 Sold
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dues paid 2018
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  #52  
Old 08-24-2006, 08:58 AM
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John C John C is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator
Excellent report, John. The 9 IS a different machine with fixed pitch prop and its 28 foot wing.

I am very interested in the performance of your airplane with the fixed pitch prop. How does take off roll compare to Van's 250-400' number? Would you feel comfortable flying out of 2200' of grass?

dd
David, I think Vans number for the 160 hp are just fine. My empty weight is 1050 and with me and a load of fuel on a cool day, I line up at the very end, push the power up, cross the stripes in the touchdown zone, get airborne over the numbers and sometimes am 100 feet high at the 1,000 foot stripes. My first flight I was 1,000 feet high at the end of the 5,000 feet runway and thought my altimeter was really screwed up. By the time I had turned downwind, I was at 2,000 feet.

I took off at 1700 pounds and 93 degrees on pavement the other day. The acceleration was noticably slower but I was still climbing well at the 1,000 feet stripes. I don't have any experience about the effects of grass height, ground softness to comment about turf takeoffs. I would use partial flaps, get the stick way back. I would expect to be very comfortable with 2,200 feet of turf, grass not too high, clear departure end, hot day and fully loaded. I would sneak up on that scenario though.

I am sure there are others who do have the proper experience. Perhaps they will comment.
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  #53  
Old 08-24-2006, 10:26 AM
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akarmy akarmy is offline
 
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Location: Auburn, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator
I am very interested in the performance of your airplane with the fixed pitch prop. How does take off roll compare to Van's 250-400' number? Would you feel comfortable flying out of 2200' of grass?
Well, my 9A is setup with 160HP, FP 70cm79 sensenich, 1034lbs empty...

I flew daily off my Dad's 1800ft grass strip in Virginia and we left out of there with 2 people, full baggage, and half fuel (near 1700lbs). No problem clearning the 60ft trees at the end.

I've also flown in and out of 1000ft grass with clear approaches (It was doable, but the pucker factor was a bit high) Had 2 aboard also.

Lastly 2200 ft grass strip locally here that might as well be 10,000ft as it's no problem at all.

The thing I learned about the 9 doing grass and climbs over trees etc. Normally I lift off and accelerate to about 110 for the climb out. On the short strips, lower the flaps to match the down aileron, lift off as soon as possible and hold the nose up to climb between 65-70mph and it will just sail up over those trees.

Have fun out there!
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  #54  
Old 08-25-2006, 05:40 AM
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pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
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Location: Louisville, Ga
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Old concept but much like adding a ballistic recovery parachute to a Skyhawk!
These airplanes are not THAT fast!
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  #55  
Old 08-27-2006, 03:28 PM
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Pete: you've been asking about slowing the 9A down. A commercial bush pilot gave me a tip that I tried today with success.

When above Vfe in the 9A, use an aggressive forward slip to bleed off energy. You'll get some minor pitch oscillations, but it's pretty effective if you have strong legs.

Use this technique to lose altitude and reduce speed to below Vfe, then add flaps as required. Once flaps are deployed, you are increasing lift/reducing stall speed more than adding drag (especially in the 9A with 32 degrees max), so think of the slip as drag and the flaps as lift.

It's all about dissipating energy. We need to bleed energy off to slow down and get down at the same time. The best way to do this is add drag. Slipping in a 9A is a lot of work but it seems to work. It's certainly cheaper than adding speed brakes or a CS prop. It also gives you a better view of the runway out the side window

Vern
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  #56  
Old 09-04-2006, 10:08 PM
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RV9798 RV9798 is offline
 
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Location: Victoria, BC
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Default Success at last..

The ZOOM up seems to work well for me for bleeding off speed. I think, I am getting the hang of it. I tried the side slip and it worked, my wife did not like that approach...so idle and zoom up to bleed off the speed. The approach speed in this machine is so sweet and slow...I love it...I look good greasing most of my landings.

Pete
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  #57  
Old 09-04-2006, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV9798
The ZOOM up seems to work well for me for bleeding off speed. I think, I am getting the hang of it. I tried the side slip and it worked, my wife did not like that approach...so idle and zoom up to bleed off the speed. The approach speed in this machine is so sweet and slow...I love it...I look good greasing most of my landings.

Pete
Pete, I talked to Gus at the homecoming, and he has the same troubles that we have with a fixed pitch RV-9A. He even admitted to some overshoots in the beginning.

He suggested just pulling up to a slow speed and letting it mush down. I've used this technique, but I prefer the slip (better visibility).

One thing I haven't tried (because it scares the willies out of the controllers) is a 360 degree turn on final to adjust the approach. During my PPL training, I was also taught figure-8 turns (always turn towards the field), but this would be even more bizarre.

Gus thought that a belly board speed brake would be exciting. If we could make it scream like a Stuka, then that would make for interesting approaches at fly-ins!

Vern
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  #58  
Old 09-05-2006, 07:13 AM
David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
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Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlittle
Pete, I talked to Gus at the homecoming, and he has the same troubles that we have with a fixed pitch RV-9A. He even admitted to some overshoots in the beginning.

He suggested just pulling up to a slow speed and letting it mush down. I've used this technique, but I prefer the slip (better visibility).

One thing I haven't tried (because it scares the willies out of the controllers) is a 360 degree turn on final to adjust the approach. During my PPL training, I was also taught figure-8 turns (always turn towards the field), but this would be even more bizarre.

Gus thought that a belly board speed brake would be exciting. If we could make it scream like a Stuka, then that would make for interesting approaches at fly-ins!

Vern
Whatever works, Vern. But I don't want to imitate a sitting duck Stuka. The Spits and Hurricanes cremated them in the Battle of Britain.

This is not authorized or recommended at a public airport, but it works well out in the isolated boonies.

After clearing the area at our private grass strip yesterday, came down the runway at 160, pulled up turning 45? right, rolled out straight ahead for a moment as speed dissipated, dropped 20 flaps, turned back left 225? while descending, and landed. A modified tactical approach, so as to avoid enemy fire as much as possible - you never know about these darn terrorists these days.

Speed can be dissipated lots of ways, it's all a matter of technique and what suits the individual pilot. Zoom ups, slips, S turns, add drag - all work - and most of the time, pulling the throttle back in a timely manner works great, too.

dd
RV-7A
Subby H6
(flyin' is fun)
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  #59  
Old 09-05-2006, 08:49 AM
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vlittle vlittle is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator
Whatever works, Vern. But I don't want to imitate a sitting duck Stuka. The Spits and Hurricanes cremated them in the Battle of Britain.

This is not authorized or recommended at a public airport, but it works well out in the isolated boonies.

After clearing the area at our private grass strip yesterday, came down the runway at 160, pulled up turning 45? right, rolled out straight ahead for a moment as speed dissipated, dropped 20 flaps, turned back left 225? while descending, and landed. A modified tactical approach, so as to avoid enemy fire as much as possible - you never know about these darn terrorists these days.

Speed can be dissipated lots of ways, it's all a matter of technique and what suits the individual pilot. Zoom ups, slips, S turns, add drag - all work - and most of the time, pulling the throttle back in a timely manner works great, too.

dd
RV-7A
Subby H6
(flyin' is fun)
I'll try that at the local airport.... the controllers will love it!
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  #60  
Old 09-05-2006, 12:32 PM
ddurakovich ddurakovich is offline
 
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Location: Coshocton, Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Miller
I'm a little green here. Can somebody explain an overhead approach and how to properly fly one? I did not learn this maneuver in my PP training.
That's because, by definition, a steep turn is 45 degrees for a PP!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan
60 degrees, 2G, is a standard private pilot maneuver..
I'm afraid it's not even a Commercial Pilot manuever! Their's is 50 plus or minus 5 for the checkride

A pet peeve of mine, obviously. We teach manuevers to 14 year old kids to go out and fly solo in gliders that power pilots with thousands of hours consider dangerous and foolish.

Even CFI's aren't required to demonstrate a 60 degree banked turn anymore.

How sad.....
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