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08-19-2006, 12:48 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,514
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RV9798
I have 3 hrs on the plane right now. What stall? Its does not want to quit flying. Came in too high for landing, so I went around. (My previous plane was a 172...slow down is easy).With this plane I have to prep for landing way in advance. How about "Side/forward slip". is this acceptable in an RV9 to slow her down fast? What other techniques could you recommend to slow this (nice) sucker down.
Pete  (Still hurting from the cramp on my face)
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Pete, sounds like you are having a ton of fun, which is what this is all about.
Try slowing up sooner than on base or final, like get some flaps out on the down wind leg. The 9 is not that much more slippery than a 7. My technique is slow to 80 knots on down wind, set 10 degrees of flaps, turn base descending all the way to final and the runway at 70-75 knots. With a little practise, you can make a smooth 180 degree turn from down wind to the runway, not varying airspeed more than 5 knots and be in the visual slot the whole way. Make a bigger pattern until you get used to it. With a FP prop, these machines are not unlike a slick jet where the word is, "you can't go down and slow down at the same time". 
If possible, fly the airplane without slipping it. Slipping is a valid technique on airplanes with no flaps, but with a little planning, should not be necessary with a RV. These things do a nasty, nasty snap roll.
dd
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08-20-2006, 06:53 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, WA USA
Posts: 908
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"you can't go down and slow down at the same time".
This is perfict! And to add to this, using flaps to slow down is a very sloppy tecneek, flaps are not there to slow you down but rather to alow you to make a steeper approach once your already slowed. To slow an RV be at patern altitude by 5 to 7 miles out from your destination and begin reducing power and maintaining altitude so when your across from the numbers you are at or very near your pattern speed then apply flaps in two steps, turn to the runway and land. This is the proper method and there is no great shourt cut, I have reduced power late and sliped befor entering the pattern trying to get the speed down in time to deploy flaps across from the numbers, this can help but nothing is a good substitutes for advanced planning and proper tecneek.
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08-20-2006, 08:41 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 873
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by fodrv7
Side slipping means the fuselage will be blanking airflow from one wing and you will have crossed controls with rudder one way and aileron the other. This is a recipe for a spin if you get to slow. Actually more like a flick roll.
The ASI is also likely to misread as the pitot is flying sideways and the static ports may no longer be feeding the true static pressure to the airspeed. Mine over reads!!!!!!!!!
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As a general rule, how much above stall speed should you be to safely do a side slip?
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Mark
RV-12iS Fuselage
RV-9A Project: Sold
VAF donation made for 2020
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08-20-2006, 09:37 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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Full flap speed on the -9 is 90 mph. I'm not sure if there is a 1/2 flap speed or not.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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08-20-2006, 09:48 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ...
Posts: 2,049
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Russ McCutcheon
To slow an RV be at patern altitude by 5 to 7 miles out from your destination and begin reducing power and maintaining altitude so when your across from the numbers you are at or very near your pattern speed...
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Or just do an overhead.
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Dan Checkoway RV-7
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08-20-2006, 10:41 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 837
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Okay, I guess it's time for a little pattern review. But first, a question:
Why do a lot of engine failures occur at the first power reduction after takeoff?
When you're on the takeoff roll, you (hopefully) roll the throttle in smoothly, taking about two seconds from idle to full power. You are climbing out at full power, low airspeed, highest torsional load on the engine, all of which it's designed to take. About 30" of M/P and whatever RPM the engine will muster. Then, at some point you grab the throttle and pull it back to 25" and the prop back to 2500 RPM. All because at some point in your training some instructor (who you may now realise had a lot less experience than you probably do now!) told you to do it this way. Most of you would never be in cruise and just yank the throttle back 5" of M/P. Why do it at a critical point low to the ground while leaving the runway behind you?
Flying a good pattern requires some thinking and planning for the conditions that are present. If entering a downwind leg from a 45 degree angle, you should have decended to pattern altitude during this transition. Power reductions should be made gradually, 1-2" at a time with some time in between to normalize temperatures.
You are now on the downwind leg, which means your groundspeeds will be high, assuming wind is present. If you know from ATIS or such that there is significant wind, you need to start slowing earlier. When opposite the numbers, you should be configured to be able to make your final power reduction, and trim for a slightly nose-low attitude. If your airspeed is still high, you can relax knowing that nothing will scrub off airspeed faster than the high bank-angle turn that is coming when you turn base. You remember from doing turns around a point, and "S" turns across a road that the highest bank turns are downwind turns. While you are in this turn, keep the pitch attitude the same constant slightly nose low attitude as before the turn.
While in the turn, you will probably notice that your airspeed has decayed into the flap operating range. Just dump all the flaps at once while in the turn.
Also, lets talk about how much turn you're making here. Assuming the wind is down the runway, you will not be making a left 90 degree heading change, but maybe 100 or 110 degree change to put in enough crab so as not to drift away from the runway. On the next base-final turn, this is now an upwind turn, so it will be a shallower bank turn. Which is good when you're low to the ground and slow! How many times have you been with someone where they will make two sloppy turns from base to final? This happens when you plan both turns at the same angle of bank. It just doesn't work!
You have basically made your last power setting on downwind, trimmed once, operated the flaps once, and can pretty much enjoy the rest of the ride to the threshold at which point you will have to work again.
You can save the power, trim, 1/3 flaps, trim, power, trim, 2/3 flaps, trim, power, trim, full flaps, trim, power, trim, nonsense for when your wife or girlfriend is riding with you.
__________________
Ron Leach
RV-7 N713CM reserved VAF # 603
Cincinnati
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"Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then".
.....Bob Seger
Last edited by captainron : 08-20-2006 at 11:16 AM.
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08-20-2006, 10:46 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: McLean, IL. 1IL9
Posts: 75
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[quote=Russ McCutcheon]"
To slow an RV be at patern altitude by 5 to 7 miles out from your destination and begin reducing power and maintaining altitude so when your across from the numbers..........
Have you ever lost an engine?  800 agl 7 out (just to reduce speed) is not a good idea. Nothing wrong with slowing down 5 to 7 out, but you don't have to loose alt. to do that. jmho
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Jack Holland VAF#414
RV-7 flying since 2-06-05
200 hours as of 03-20-2007
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08-20-2006, 11:44 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 132
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Paradigm shift and shock cooling
Thanks for all your help. As of yesterday I have acculated 11 hours on the plane. From all your advice I concluded that I have to unlearn the 172 mentality and shift into the RV Paradigm. Fly in front of the plane instead of behind it. I think I am still behind it ( just a bit). Plannnig way ahead and patience. I was doing 130KIAS on downwind.....well  things happen so fast , the speed just run away from me. Now it is a 100KIAS, but I will even slow it to 90KIAS. So far it has been a blast flying the 9 eventhough nailing a precise altitude is still a chore (+/- 500 ft  ). Its getting better though. Because of this all, the next problem is not to induce "Shock Cooling". If you have been on high cruise for sometime, and you need to decent rapidly, how rapid can you pull the throtle back to avoid shock cooling....specially if ATC ask you to expedite decent? What is the proper technik? Cracked cylinders, my wallett and my health are closely related to avoiding schock cooling, ah? "Ah" is a Canadian.....
Pete (A grin a day will keep the doctor away..)
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Hi-Fly Pete...Victoria, BC Canada
RV9A, Tip-up, O-320 Lyc. Avmap IV with Wx...BACK FROM OSH 2010
Third Annual DONE.......ZERO BIG PROBLEMS....just grease and sweat and a bit of glue
Last edited by RV9798 : 08-20-2006 at 11:51 AM.
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08-20-2006, 12:54 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,514
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RV9798
Thanks for all your help. As of yesterday I have acculated 11 hours on the plane......Pete (A grin a day will keep the doctor away..)
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What a great attitude! It used to be an apple a day but an RV grin will work for sure.
I don't think you can shock cool an 0320, Pete, unless it's 20 below, which it sometimes is in your neck of the woods. Recently, it's been so darn warm I wonder if it will ever snow again. On a recent cross country at 10.5, it was +30F over standard. The density altitude was like over 13,000'.
In any event, shock cooling is a concern with some high performance, boost augmented, six cylinder engines. Not quite so with normal aspirated 0320's and 0360's. It is not as big a deal as with more complex engines.
If you want to play the game, reduce the throttle about half way as you start down, watch the CHT drop a bit and stabilize and then bring it all off if necessary. If ATC says go down fast, say yes sir, and go down as quickly and SAFELY as possible. You're flying the airplane, not the guy on the ground.
Sounds like you're making some adjustments in the traffic pattern. Good show! You'll be an ace RVer in no time 
dd
Last edited by David-aviator : 08-20-2006 at 01:01 PM.
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08-20-2006, 02:25 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Somewhere in a motorhome
Posts: 581
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Checkout ?
Hi Pete,
Having just transitioned from high wing cessna's to RV's, my best advice is to set up an appointment with Mike Seager and let him show you the tricks of the trade with RV's. I think 11,000 hrs of instructing time gives him fairly good insight into what will make your plane purr for you. I too had the same issues on my first flights with him, but all were overcome quickly. It made a huge difference in my ability to "do the right things" and not wonder if I was doing them right. Mike will let you make the mistakes and is an expert at giving you the right hints so you can land em slow, fast, short, long, or any other way you want to. I highly recommend getting a checkout with him or another RV expert.
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RV7A-QB, RV-10
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