training project questions

prkaye · #1 08-12-2006, 06:02 PM

I've made a few dents and dings in my practice project... making me nervous about starting on real aircraft parts!! A few questions:

1) For the AD-4 rivets (the thicker ones with the round head), is it the #30 drill bit I'm supposed to use?

2) Using the pneumatic squeezer for AD-4 rivets I found I had the turn the PSI way up to get the sqeezer to sqeeze the rivets hard enough. What PSI should typically be used for the squeezer?

3) On the squeezer, one side moves up to the other side which is stationary. For the round-head rivets, should the flush set be on the moving piston, with the cupped set on the stationary part (i.e. hold the stationary part with the cupped set against the rivet head, and let the flush set move up to strike and sqeeze the back of the rivet)?

4) I have a set of the rivet gauges... I presume the one that is labelled "-3" is the one to use with the AD-3 flush rivets? I find it's a fine line to get the shop head to the right diameter as well as height (there's not much room to wiggle between too-flat and not-wide-enough). I guess this just comes with practice.

5) I have another gauge of some sort which is a small rectangular piece, with different size notches cut out of all four corners (numbered -3,-4,-5,-6). What is this guage for?

Thanks!!

Phil

scard · #2 08-12-2006, 06:12 PM

1) Yep.
2) 90 lbs. Adjust the set so it only squeezes at the very end of its travel.
3) You'll have instances where you do it both ways.
4) Yep.
5) It is a rivet guage too. The notches show set height.

All good questions.

jdmunzell · #3 08-12-2006, 08:18 PM

Also, for question #5, those numbers (-3,-4,-5,-6) specifically refer to the rivet dash number or shank diameter. ie. AN3 or AN4 (3/32" or 1/8" diameter).

The set height refers to the height the rivet shank should be after going through pieces to be mated, before riveting. It's a way to make sure you have enough rivet shank material, but not too much, to successfully set a rivet with the required height and width for the finished shop head.

Hope that helps.

mlwynn · #4 08-12-2006, 08:53 PM

I applaud your purchase of a pneumatic riveter. It is my favorite tool. Couple of thoughts: When squeezing any rivet, it is easier to have the moving plunger squeeze the shop head (the one you are making). You can hold the cupped set very securely and then bring the moving set up slowly, position correctly and squeeze. A foot controller is a really big help in controlling the squeezer.

Also, the squeezer will only develop significant pressure over the last part of its motion. Sometimes you have to partially set a rivet and then adjust the set a little closer to finish the rivet. An adjustable set holder is a big help in that situation. I have also found that sometimes just sort of wriggling the squeezer will get it to start the squeeze. Once it starts, it completes it quite nicely.

While the entire process is really intimidating now, it will become much easier and second nature by the time you are done with the empennage.

Have fun, and don't get too oc

Michael Wynn
RV 8 Wings

JoeLofton · #5 08-12-2006, 09:04 PM

Phil...

I highly recommend the Standard Aircraft Handbook for Mechanics and Technicians. It has a section on riveting that includes tables on rivets and drill sizes, and a lot of other good information about aircraft construction.

You can get a copy from any of the major aircraft parts suppliers (i.e. Aircraft Spruce) for $20-$25.

Joe Lofton
Huntsville, AL
RV-9A Wings

G-force · #6 08-12-2006, 09:39 PM

#4: if its the Avery gauges, I believe the hole in the end is the minimum diameter...basicaly squeeze it untill it just wont fit. Then check the height with the notch on the end of the gauge to check the height. You right, there is not much play in the equation...if you start with a proper rivet, it will usualy be too short if over squeezed.

#5 The vans plans call out what lenght rivet to use...if your not sure, or doing something where nothing is called out, that what this gauge is for. Push a rivet through your hole and hold this gauge over the protruding shank. It should be the same height as the notch. Somewhat tricky to use on dimpled parts...you have to measure from the top of the dimple, not the flat, lower area around the dimple.

vmirv8bldr · #7 08-12-2006, 10:15 PM

Practice with your pneumatic. I mean PRACTICE. Get your thumb so sensitive that you can make the piston go up as slow as humanly possible, change direction before topping out, and whistle Dixie. Believe me, that thing will surprise you, scare you, and amaze you all at the same time. Get good with it. It won't take long, but there's more to that tool than just squeezing the lever!

Enjoy the practice kit. The hardest hole to drill on the entire airplane comes in the empennage kit. (It's the first hole you drill for real.)

Keep at it, if I can do this, anyone can.

prkaye · #8 08-13-2006, 08:30 AM

Thanks guys, for all your help.
I think I may order the "toolbox" project with my empannage (ordering today!), to give me a bit more practice before I start tackling real flying parts. Would make a good x-mas present for my mother (seriously) !

scard · #9 08-13-2006, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vmirv8bldr

Practice with your pneumatic. I mean PRACTICE. Get your thumb so sensitive that you can make the piston go up as slow as humanly possible, change direction before topping out, and whistle Dixie.

Agreed. But there is also no need to avoid the project for fear of lack thereof (practice). I found myself squeezing one handed using my pinkie finger to operate the valve lever the other day. It felt totally comfortable and I didn't even notice until Tanya looked over and said something. I guess I could probably operate the squeezer with my toes I've used it so much. By the end of the project, you'll have plenty of practice

.

mdredmond · #10 08-13-2006, 08:55 AM

Quote:

think I may order the "toolbox" project with my empannage (ordering today!), to give me a bit more practice before I start tackling real flying parts. Would make a good x-mas present for my mother (seriously) !

I'm only about 1/4 step ahead of you, having learned how to squeeze (but not shoot) rivets just yesterday. Do yourself a favor when you order the empennage and toolbox - get Van's to send you a number of pieces of practice metal that you can drill, dimple, rivet, drill rivets out of, etc... I have no idea what they would cost, but it can't be much.