Guilhermepilot
Well Known Member
I saw some theads saying that the 10 row aero clssic 8000081 oil cooler fits behind n4 cilynder, but mine it is touching my engine mount, seems there is no space, I will be more confortable with some clearence
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oil cooler
- Thread starter Guilhermepilot
- Start date
Almost touching .... ??
On mine, it was just the flange that was touching so I scribed out the diameter of the tubing plus 3/8 of an inch out of the flange and it worked just fine. Basically just a half moon into the flange where the tubing would have hit it. I used three bolts on that side and have had no issues.
On mine, it was just the flange that was touching so I scribed out the diameter of the tubing plus 3/8 of an inch out of the flange and it worked just fine. Basically just a half moon into the flange where the tubing would have hit it. I used three bolts on that side and have had no issues.
Guilhermepilot
Well Known Member
Mine is just laying on mount, I think I will have to replace for a 9 row 5.33 of height
grayforge
Well Known Member
Did you trim the flange? Can you include a photo?
But I ended up going with the 9 Row Aero Classics version (Model 8000074) and have decent clearance.
Here's what I trimmed:
But I ended up going with the 9 Row Aero Classics version (Model 8000074) and have decent clearance.
Here's what I trimmed:
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Guilhermepilot
Well Known Member
I will fly and check if it will be a problem otherwise 9 row
Will be right choice
Look at my 10 row what you think?
Will be right choice
Look at my 10 row what you think?
grayforge
Well Known Member
I will fly and check if it will be a problem otherwise 9 row
Will be right choice
Look at my 10 row what you think?
It looks like you may have enough clearance.
But I'm concerned that the entire inboard/aft flange has been removed rather than just cutting a clearance arc like Vans specifies. Leaving some of this flange in-place to bolt through would help secure the oil cooler to the baffling.
BillL
Well Known Member
Russ, rear inboard flange gone, but the inboard side of the cooler is not so still to the baffles. Even if he puts a stiffener from the case, or head, to the center, it should be ok. The inboard, forward flange should be using a fitted plate as a doubler anyway to spread the loads at the fasteners. .063 aluminum is good but a steel one would be better as it is stiffer.
So, if you think the clearance is good, then he should be ok. Besides, at this point the cooler is either going to be replaced because the flange is removed or because it breaks. And we are not sure it will break so why not use it and keep an eye on it?
He should use the same system on the outboard side where cracks have been seen in others and where it is much more stiffly secured to the head. Long bolts too.
Just an opinion.
So, if you think the clearance is good, then he should be ok. Besides, at this point the cooler is either going to be replaced because the flange is removed or because it breaks. And we are not sure it will break so why not use it and keep an eye on it?
He should use the same system on the outboard side where cracks have been seen in others and where it is much more stiffly secured to the head. Long bolts too.
Just an opinion.
I disagree with that opinion (if I understand it correctly... the text seems like it may have some typos?).
If it were mine, I would keep a very close eye on the inboard fwd flange... having both flanges for attachment with spacers in between, adds a lot of support to the flanges to resist fatigue cracks along the corner bend line of the fwd flanges.
I have the traditional 7 row mounted on the baffles for a 230HP IO-360 and have zero cooling issues. In fact I've had to completely close the shutter all winter and still have to try very hard to see 180 when it's cold. Using a very tightly sealed plenum.
Food for thought. The 10 row is a lot more weight to support back there.
Food for thought. The 10 row is a lot more weight to support back there.
BillL
Well Known Member
Yeah, Scott that post was before coffee this morning. Guilty as charged! I fixed the confusing wording (I hope). I certainly would support using both flanges with washers for good load transfer on the outboard side. What I meant to say is that the baffles don't provide much resistance to the yaw pivot about the very stiff outboard flange connection to the baffles. The mass of the oil cooler presents a vertical shear load on that inboard flange for which the baffles are stiff. In that case it would not be a clear opportunity for a failure. For that reason, I was suggesting he might use the cooler as-is (missing the flange) and if keep under eye, it should not present an imminent threat. If he gets lucky, then the cost of another cooler is avoided. If not and it cracks, then it is grounded and to be repaired. Sorry for the crummy post. Thanks
Maybe the ambient temps are warmer at the equator.
Guilhermepilot
Well Known Member
Guys
Brazil is hot, average is 90 to 100 F
The clearence seems ok, once it is already cut, I will monitor, and test, if there cracks, replace all, with maybe a 9 row, I will fly and see, as a matter of fact tomorrow will be first start
Brazil is hot, average is 90 to 100 F
The clearence seems ok, once it is already cut, I will monitor, and test, if there cracks, replace all, with maybe a 9 row, I will fly and see, as a matter of fact tomorrow will be first start
High desert in NV. Density altitudes of 7k plus with ambient temps above 105... With a 105-110 cruise climb I would tickle 198-200 in the climb.
Point being, a huge cooler is a crutch for an inefficient install.
jjconstant
Well Known Member
Just as a counter-point: Many of us have had real cooling issues, both oil temp and CHT and do not have "an inefficient install". Having had many people inspect my install, including folks (lots of engineers) that have engines that run very cool, and after implementing every suggestion to the satisfaction of those making the suggestions, no-one could provide a definitive reason for my high oil temps, which I solved with a bigger oil cooler, and high CHTs which I solved with the anti splat cowl flaps.
The theory that makes the most sense to me is that my combination of IO-360 parallel valve engine with nickel ECI cylinders, 9.2:1 cylinders and electronic ignition makes a lot of heat and isn't as good at dissipating it as the Lycoming steel cylinders and the various variations that cool easily.
There is so much variation in the FWF choices that people make. Yes it is important to make sure your installation is as efficient as possible. But it is not always slovenly build technique that is the cause of high temperatures. Sometimes it's the choices we make. If I were to do it again, I would still make the same choices, but I would now know to install the higher capacity oil cooler and the cowl flaps right away. The problem is that we can't definitively identify ALL the things that lead to high temps. Certainly bad installation can be a factor but it is by no means the only one.
All in the spirit of education and recreation
The theory that makes the most sense to me is that my combination of IO-360 parallel valve engine with nickel ECI cylinders, 9.2:1 cylinders and electronic ignition makes a lot of heat and isn't as good at dissipating it as the Lycoming steel cylinders and the various variations that cool easily.
There is so much variation in the FWF choices that people make. Yes it is important to make sure your installation is as efficient as possible. But it is not always slovenly build technique that is the cause of high temperatures. Sometimes it's the choices we make. If I were to do it again, I would still make the same choices, but I would now know to install the higher capacity oil cooler and the cowl flaps right away. The problem is that we can't definitively identify ALL the things that lead to high temps. Certainly bad installation can be a factor but it is by no means the only one.
All in the spirit of education and recreation
Cyl #4 baffle crack
I wonder if anyone has come up with a fix for a crack that runs top to bottom on the #4 baffle right at the radius that attaches to the oil cooler? I had a crack at 175 hours and then replaced all the alu parts that make up that assembly. Now at 80 more hours, a small crack is starting again. It just seems that the oil cooler adds too much weight to that corner? I have the stock cooler that came with the kit.
Thanks,
mlgpilot 525MV
I wonder if anyone has come up with a fix for a crack that runs top to bottom on the #4 baffle right at the radius that attaches to the oil cooler? I had a crack at 175 hours and then replaced all the alu parts that make up that assembly. Now at 80 more hours, a small crack is starting again. It just seems that the oil cooler adds too much weight to that corner? I have the stock cooler that came with the kit.
Thanks,
mlgpilot 525MV
Lots of reinforcement, and **** near polishing all the pieces to get every possible burr and starting point for cracks out of each piece.
Next time I have my cowl off I'll try and get pics of my setup
Guilhermepilot
Well Known Member
Just as a counter-point: Many of us have had real cooling issues, both oil temp and CHT and do not have "an inefficient install". Having had many people inspect my install, including folks (lots of engineers) that have engines that run very cool, and after implementing every suggestion to the satisfaction of those making the suggestions, no-one could provide a definitive reason for my high oil temps, which I solved with a bigger oil cooler, and high CHTs which I solved with the anti splat cowl flaps.
The theory that makes the most sense to me is that my combination of IO-360 parallel valve engine with nickel ECI cylinders, 9.2:1 cylinders and electronic ignition makes a lot of heat and isn't as good at dissipating it as the Lycoming steel cylinders and the various variations that cool easily.
There is so much variation in the FWF choices that people make. Yes it is important to make sure your installation is as efficient as possible. But it is not always slovenly build technique that is the cause of high temperatures. Sometimes it's the choices we make. If I were to do it again, I would still make the same choices, but I would now know to install the higher capacity oil cooler and the cowl flaps right away. The problem is that we can't definitively identify ALL the things that lead to high temps. Certainly bad installation can be a factor but it is by no means the only one.
All in the spirit of education and recreation
Excelent point!!!!!
jjconstant
Well Known Member
Absolutely agree and this is especially important if you're putting on a bigger oil cooler! All you need to do is see an engine start and stop, giving that "wet dog shake". Now picture the extra weight of a bigger cooler, hanging that far out away from the center of rotation of that shaking dog and you'll want to reinforce the baffles that the oil cooler hangs from to the point you could lift the weight of the airplane!
I followed Walt and others' lead and did the belt and suspenders of more aluminum layers and thicknesses and a reinforcing bar.
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az_gila
Well Known Member
A late addition to the thread but for the archives.
Use of the inboard aft oil cooler flange is not always needed. This is the certified attach arrangement on a Grumman Tiger.
The good part of this installation are the 1/8 thick alum. doubler strips on the aft side of the forward flanges (both sides).
I think adding these doublers would be a good idea on any installations.
