Van's Air Force
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Oetiker Clamps
- Thread starter DonFromTX
- Start date
Fuel Lines
Check AC 43.13, the Jeppesen A&P Technician's Handbooks and Tony Bingelis' series of books. I don't think you'll find Oetiker clamps in them used on a fuel system and there's a good reason for that. There's better more reliable hose, fittings, adapters and tubing made just for aircraft fuel systems.
Check AC 43.13, the Jeppesen A&P Technician's Handbooks and Tony Bingelis' series of books. I don't think you'll find Oetiker clamps in them used on a fuel system and there's a good reason for that. There's better more reliable hose, fittings, adapters and tubing made just for aircraft fuel systems.
David-aviator
Well Known Member
Don,
Contact Jan Eggenfellner regarding a clamp kit. He sold one with the Subby engines and may be doing the same with the Viking.
Otherwise OE Tiker clamps are available from MSC and other hardware supply houses.
Jetguy
Well Known Member
Clamps at Lowes
They sell these clamps at lowes avaition supply, check them out.
http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogDisplay?Ntt=pex+clamps&langId=-1&storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&N=0
They sell these clamps at lowes avaition supply, check them out.
http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogDisplay?Ntt=pex+clamps&langId=-1&storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&N=0
David-aviator
Well Known Member
High pressure injection fuel hose installed with double eared OE Tiker clamps was the least of my concerns.
The Rotax engine uses screw clamps. The OE Tiker clamps can not come lose. The only way to remove them is to cut them. I changed the clamps and hoses after 4 years and they were all like new, still running with the replaced system today.
Like I say, that fuel hose and clamping system was the least of the problems I had with an auto engine in the RV-7A.
The only fuel leaks I've ever had was with Aeroequip hose from ACS, it did not like 100LL.
Rick6a
Well Known Member
Aviation Quality
Aviation quality firesleeve band clamps and the tool necessary to set the clamps can be purchased from several vendors including Wicks and Spruce:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aqfiresleeve.php
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=8909~subid=10606/index.html
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/aeroquipClamping.php
Aviation quality firesleeve band clamps and the tool necessary to set the clamps can be purchased from several vendors including Wicks and Spruce:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aqfiresleeve.php
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=8909~subid=10606/index.html
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/aeroquipClamping.php
DonFromTX
Well Known Member
Since I am putting in an automotive engine, why should the filters, hoses and clamps that work flawlessly in the automobile not work in the air? It is in fact an identical system being used in the Around the World flight of the Sling with 914 Rotax.
hum---
automotive clamps are for things on the ground---its a long way down from 5000' when a hose comes off a barb---even clamped with oeteker clamps. But---its your plane.
Tom
automotive clamps are for things on the ground---its a long way down from 5000' when a hose comes off a barb---even clamped with oeteker clamps. But---its your plane.
Tom
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Gary 40274
Well Known Member
100 years
Back when the Bicycle boys first built their plane there was no experience about what worked on an aircraft and what didn't. We have over the last 100 years learned that some equipment is better than others.
Don't be so quick to throw out all the aviation hardware in favor of automotive stuff. Some of it may work most of the time and some may not, but the certified airplane guys have learned over the years, and usually the hard way what works. It makes good logical sense to use the same stuff if you are going in the air. Cars and Airplanes are not the same.
Gary Specketer
Tech counselor, flight advisor
Dragonfly, Glasair III, Glastar, RV10
Back when the Bicycle boys first built their plane there was no experience about what worked on an aircraft and what didn't. We have over the last 100 years learned that some equipment is better than others.
Don't be so quick to throw out all the aviation hardware in favor of automotive stuff. Some of it may work most of the time and some may not, but the certified airplane guys have learned over the years, and usually the hard way what works. It makes good logical sense to use the same stuff if you are going in the air. Cars and Airplanes are not the same.
Gary Specketer
Tech counselor, flight advisor
Dragonfly, Glasair III, Glastar, RV10
DonFromTX
Well Known Member
I try to look at it with a very open starting point. I doubt one can point out a single aircraft test where Oetiker clamps failed in use in favor of something else, and the attitude that it must be inferior since aircraft makers do not use it seems to fall flat with me. The aircraft industry has used some shady tactics for a long time to sell overpriced items. I got acquainted with it back when I owned a Cherokee. Ever wonder why the trim handle looked a lot like an automotive window crank part, and the door handle? Astoundingly expensive from Piper, probably because they had to tool up for them? Not so, they are in fact bought from Ford Motor Company, surplus from an older model Ford! AND marked up to some insane price because it is an "aircraft" part now. By the way, ever notice how that Cherokee alternator looked identical to the one on your old Plymouth Valiant? My auto that uses Oetiker clamps comes with a 100,000 mile warranty, I don't see that in aircraft engines or parts.
My point is, the automotive industry moves ahead, the aircraft industry usually fails to, for fear something might not work, and no incentive since they like the markups as do the A&P's. Very few parts have an altimeter attached to self destruct at a certain altitude.
OK, off my soap box now.
My point is, the automotive industry moves ahead, the aircraft industry usually fails to, for fear something might not work, and no incentive since they like the markups as do the A&P's. Very few parts have an altimeter attached to self destruct at a certain altitude.
OK, off my soap box now.
Walt
Well Known Member
I don't like automotive engines in airplanes so I guess its to be expected that I don't like automotive "accessories" in them either
I try to take the "experimental" out of experimental aircraft as much as possible, guess I'm just chicken in my old age.
DonFromTX
Well Known Member
I can appreciate your position, which is more the norm, and I the abnormal. In my old age I feel more a need to experiment and question some of the "rules". My biggest disappointment this week is that somebody else gets to fly the first Viking powered RV12 (with Oetiker clamps by the way), I wish it were me.
I LIKE the Experimental in experimental aircraft!
I LIKE the Experimental in experimental aircraft!
I don't like automotive engines in airplanes so I guess its to be expected that I don't like automotive "accessories" in them either
I try to take the "experimental" out of experimental aircraft as much as possible, guess I'm just chicken in my old age.
Walt
Well Known Member
Don.. this topic has come up before between my brother and myself as we get older. At a certain point in life it makes perfect sense to start taking more risk, the older you get the more risk you should take, this way you ensure that you are having maximum fun in the "end"
gabbiesrv7a
Member
band-it clamps
Rick, I purchased the cheap band-it clamping tool version (24 bucks) but for the life of me cant figure out how to use it....go figure. the instructions are a bit nebulous to say the least. any advice?
Aviation quality firesleeve band clamps and the tool necessary to set the clamps can be purchased from several vendors including Wicks and Spruce:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aqfiresleeve.php
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=8909~subid=10606/index.html
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/aeroquipClamping.php
Rick, I purchased the cheap band-it clamping tool version (24 bucks) but for the life of me cant figure out how to use it....go figure. the instructions are a bit nebulous to say the least. any advice?
gabbiesrv7a
Member
clamping tool
figured how to use it, simple...go figure. had a hard time finding the bandit clamps, not in wickes or aircraft spruce, but found them at McMaster Carr
figured how to use it, simple...go figure. had a hard time finding the bandit clamps, not in wickes or aircraft spruce, but found them at McMaster Carr
EAA Video
EAA has a video in "Hints for Homebuilders" entitled:"Firesleeve-Installation and Removal" that was very helpful to me in learning how to use the firesleeve and banding tool. It's got a few tricks to it that you just have to learn by trial and error. I recommend getting several more clamps than you need to allow for a few goof-ups (based on my personal experience).
EAA has a video in "Hints for Homebuilders" entitled:"Firesleeve-Installation and Removal" that was very helpful to me in learning how to use the firesleeve and banding tool. It's got a few tricks to it that you just have to learn by trial and error. I recommend getting several more clamps than you need to allow for a few goof-ups (based on my personal experience).
erich weaver
Well Known Member
Granted those clamps look nice, but I don't really get it. What's wrong with a standard, properly sized, hose clamp, which has the advantage of being removable with nothing more than a screwdriver, iis readily available at any hardware store, and can be re-used multiple times. Mine seem to be working just fine...
Erich
Erich
Captain Avgas
Well Known Member
In my personal experience these are the problem with the standard screw-type hardware store hose clamps when used on firesleeeve:
a) They are bulky which can be a problem in tight areas.
b) The slots in the band tend to damage the soft silicon fire-sleeve during installation.
c) They're heavy.
d) They're not as reliable as conventional aircraft firesleeve clamps.
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bird
Well Known Member
ok how about this
How about stainless steel ty wraps? Yep they got'em, use them at work all the time. 1/8-1/4 in wide, easy to install with a pair of diagonal cutters. I also was amazed when I was walking down the aviation isle at harbor freight and actually saw some of these by the regular ty wraps!!! I usually buy them from an electrical supply house. They look a lot like Rick has posted. Whatever you put them on they are not comming off without cutting. Just a thought.
bird
How about stainless steel ty wraps? Yep they got'em, use them at work all the time. 1/8-1/4 in wide, easy to install with a pair of diagonal cutters. I also was amazed when I was walking down the aviation isle at harbor freight and actually saw some of these by the regular ty wraps!!! I usually buy them from an electrical supply house. They look a lot like Rick has posted. Whatever you put them on they are not comming off without cutting. Just a thought.
bird
Buggsy2
Well Known Member
I'm not going to choose a side with this particular issue the OP raised, and I generally agree with the thoughts above. BUT, the OP is using a liquid-cooled inline engine with I presume significantly less vibration than a traditional air-cooled opposed engine. Much of the hard-earned experience concerns failure due to fatigue from vibration. So to automatically prefer an aviation over an automotive solution may not be appropriate.
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oetiker is not a specifically "automotive" technology. There is an astm standard f2098 relating to pex for household use. I do not know other industrial standards, but to reference the oetiker as an "automotive" derogatory standard is a bit of a weak attack.
I do not know if the pex standard is only to the oetiker clamp called "one ear stepless", or if it qualifies all of them. They are used in heavy equipment and many other industries.
I do not know if the pex standard is only to the oetiker clamp called "one ear stepless", or if it qualifies all of them. They are used in heavy equipment and many other industries.
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hgerhardt
Well Known Member
Oetiker clamps are OE for current-generation BMW motorcycle fuel systems which operate at ~43 psi. If you're looking for 5/16" hose at least, you can get them here. I recently had to replace one of the fuel quick-disconnects on my BMW and had to remove 2 of the Oetiker clamps. AS LONG as your fittings are properly barbed, those clamps ain't coming off. They're good stuff.
That said, I'd still use steel-braided teflon hoses with swaged-on 37deg flare fittings. This vendor will make the hoses to your specs and they're quite reasonable. I had them make short -4 hoses to go from the calipers to the aluminum tubing on the gear legs for my -6 and they're really well-made.
