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ASA Vacuum System Concerns

PerfTech

Well Known Member
... We fully understand the concerns of RV owners from reading the thread on this recent incident resulting in a forced landing, due to a clogged breather. This occurrence and one other on an RV-10 are the only ones we were made aware of ( even one is too many). The only models displaying serious coking potential have been the 10s and we suspended sales of the evacuation system to the 10s until we can be assured the problem no longer exists. We must add that several RV-10s have the system installed and are having no issues whatsoever. We are currently trying to sort out why and what is different. We sent out a service bulletin to everyone and also addressed this at length on the forums as a safety precaution (it now appears many were unaware and failed to receive it). We strongly advised everyone to inspect the tube into the exhaust at every oil change to be certain it is open and free of any serious clogging. A small amount, 1/16" or so is normal and not an issue. We also changed the design of the saddle clamp to further help eliminate the potential problem. Karl, the owner of the RV-8 with the forced landing has had this system installed for months and stated this; "The fitting has been installed for 24 months and has never been internally inspected". He didn't even inspect it at annual inspection or the problem would have been alleviated. We advise inspection at every oil change and if any significant build-up is detected to inspect more often than that. If significant build-up is detected then a second valve to vent off crankcase pressure should be installed. We have the parts for this in stock should you need them. This forced landing should not have happened and it appears the real problem is in the fact that we failed to get everyone adequately informed as to maintenance of the system. I have contacted him to supply what ever he needs to make him comfortable with his installation and we are thankful he is OK and no serious damages occurred. We have offered and supplied to experimental aircraft, this product with oil separators for over thirty years with sales of many thousands of units. To our knowledge there have been just these two incidents. We are working on a service bulletin to put on our website addressing these concerns with maintenance instructions Etc. If you have a question, concern or a good suggestion you would like to discuss, please give us a call. Thanks, Allan
 
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S/B on ASA website?

Allan,

Is there a service bulletin area on your website? I looked and couldn’t find a S/B section. If there is, and I missed it, can you provide the URL?

Van’s, as an example, is at: www.vansaircraft.com/public/service.htm

v/r,
dr

[ed. 10/30 update. I see you edited your post above to say you're working on a S/B for your website. Thank you for the update. dr]
 
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Coming Monday!

... My computer guy will be in on Monday and we will have that feature. We make souch quality products that until now it wasen't needed.:rolleyes::rolleyes: Thanks, Allan
 
Allan,
Thanks for getting onto this. I agree that you put out high quality products. However, as you turn your attention to the quality of your information processes, here are two data points:
1) I never received the SB notification that you said you sent out.
2) reviewing the paperwork that came with my breather/vacuum valve kit, I see no maintenance direction to check for coking or to clean it at all, or any sort of maintenance instruction. Likewise for the separator. If such direction exists, it didn't make it into my shipping box.
 
Question?

Allan,

What if I want to remove the vacuum portion only of my air oil separator and leave the separator in tact. Can I leave the setup the same and simply remove the hose from the valve and position it to drip on the exhaust pipe, add whistle vent, etc. per the Vans Stock plans setup.

Or in other words does the air oil separator setup work without the vacuum?
 
Allan,

What if I want to remove the vacuum portion only of my air oil separator and leave the separator in tact. Can I leave the setup the same and simply remove the hose from the valve and position it to drip on the exhaust pipe, add whistle vent, etc. per the Vans Stock plans setup.

Or in other words does the air oil separator setup work without the vacuum?

Yes! It works great, but you will loose a few good things in that process. Thanks, Allan :confused:
 
PerfTech said:
....We are working on a service bulletin to put on our website addressing these concerns with maintenance instructions Etc....

... My computer guy will be in on Monday and we will have that feature. ...snip

It's now Tuesday and I don't see the SB on your website.

dr
 
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It's now Tuesday and I don't see the SB on your website.

dr

... Sorry for the delay! Here is an advance copy of the "Service Bulletin" That should be on our website today. Thanks, Allan
.
SERVICE BULLETIN 000-1
Date Effective October 30, 2014
Subject Vacuum Saddle Mount Evacuation System Maintenance
Required Action Cleaning and Inspection of Bias Draw Tube
Time of Compliance Before Further Flight and at Each Subsequent Oil Change
Level of Certification Aircraft Owner
... A potential problem has been brought to our attention with two recent incidents resulting in a forced landing of an RV-8 due to a clogged, coked breather. This occurrence and one other on an RV-10 that had a front seal blow out are the only ones we were made aware of (even one is too many). The models displaying serious coking potential have been the 10s and we suspended sales of the evacuation system to the 10s until we can be assured the problem no longer exists. We must add that several RV-10s have the system installed and are having no issues whatsoever. We are currently trying to sort out why, and what is different. When a good working solution is found we will make it available to all via our website and the forums. We addressed this at length on the forums as a safety precaution (it appears many were unaware and failed to receive this information). A.S.A. markets this product too many different experimental models and applications. We strongly advise everyone, with all aircraft models to inspect the tube where it protrudes into the exhaust immediately, and at every oil change to be certain it is open and free of any serious clogging. Many owners have carried out this inspection to find a small amount of coking, 1/16" or so on the inside periphery is normal. This is not an issue and usually will not build further. We have also changed the design of the saddle mount clamp on to further help eliminate the potential problem. When we complete the testing program on this change we will report our results and make these available. We advise inspection at every oil change and if any significant build-up is detected, to inspect more often than that. If significant build-up is detected, then for safety a second valve to vent off crankcase pressure should be installed. We have the parts for this in stock should you need them. In light of recent developments, we will be offering the system complete with two valves and necessary hardware to install this bypass. We will also have a retrofit kit to add this safety feature on to existing installations. This forced landing would not have happened and it appears the root problem lies in the fact that we failed to get everyone adequately informed as to maintenance of this system.
 
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For the record - I have no skin in this game as I have never purchased any ASA products - but I have yet to see a single person chime in that they did, actually receive a notice of this issue. I have been following all of the threads on this topic for some time.

If there are any recipients of this letter I would love to hear from them.

I have to agree with a vigorous poster from another thread that this is a SERIOUS issue! If this problem is known to exist why would the relief valve not be standard installation and part of the kit. This feels like a case of blind leading the blind here...

It's interesting that the focus of the previous posts is MAINTENANCE yet there does not seem to be any mention of this requirement, even when made aware of the issues, on the website, installation instructions, etc...?

I think someone should be saying a prayer of thanks that no one is dead yet AND that builders are generally the type to take challenges as they come and simply move on - if not, I can only imagine the fun discussions that could be happening among the law-sharks.
 
... As I said before, we began addressing this as soon a the first issue came up, and posted here to make others aware of a potential problem. Here is the link to that post from July of 2013.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=101827
... We also paid a mailing service to send out our service bulletin to 5000 purchasers of this vacuum system. After recently being made aware that they had failed to perform and they kept our payment for services we will be taking legal action in this mater. All of this was done after only one incident out of thousands of units. I would be more than happy to compare our performance with this or any of our products. No other aircraft parts or kit manufacturers offer better quality, service or try harder to keep their customers happy. I am proud of our performance! Thanks, Allan..:D
 
....and.... The SB says that if significant buildup is found at oil change to increase frequency of inspection.

What if the increased buildup has already caused a failure? Does anyone else sense the silliness of telling me that if a failure mode has already occurred that I should look more often?

I have rock climbed, raced motorcycles, dodged bullets fired by Islamic Radicals, landed on gravel bars in AK, flown in weather that would keep sane people inside by the fire (backcountry AK)...but this seems to be a level of risk that I would not want to accept.
 
Hi guys,

To be fair to Allan, I recieved a letter in the mail informing me of the potential problems and also the need to clean the tube regularly and I live in Sydney Australia.

On another note, I had a major failure of the valve (the internal rivet that holds the cupped seal in place failed and blocked the valve) which I posted about on this site about 1 year ago which also caused my crank case nose seal to be ejected, luckily I was over the top of my airport when this happened and it resulted in just a messy belly and wings. I gather this failure would be considered different to the croaking issues being discussed.

Regards
 
479 days.

Allan,

The reason I'm VERY concerned, and why I ask that it be placed on your site today, is that I don't want my site (VAF) to be the only spot on the internet where your Service Bulletin lives. The thread you mentioned below, and thank you for that, was created 479 days ago (1.3 years).

Please, this SB needs to be on your website yesterday! Not just my site. I can't stress this enough.

dr

... As I said before, we began addressing this as soon a the first issue came up, and posted here to make others aware of a potential problem. Here is the link to that post from July of 2013.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=101827
... We also paid a mailing service to send out our service bulletin to 5000 purchasers of this vacuum system. After recently being made aware that they had failed to perform and they kept our payment for services we will be taking legal action in this mater. All of this was done after only one incident out of thousands of units. I would be more than happy to compare our performance with this or any of our products. No other aircraft parts or kit manufacturers offer better quality, service or try harder to keep their customers happy. I am proud of our performance! Thanks, Allan..:D
 
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Allan,

The reason I'm VERY concerned, and why I ask that it be placed on your site today, is that I don't want my site (VAF) to be the only spot on the internet where your Service Bulletin lives. The thread you mentioned below, and thank you for that, was created 479 days ago (1.3 years).

Please, this SB needs to be on your website yesterday! Not just my site. I can't stress this enough.

dr

... Our guy that does the computer stuff put this S.B. up on our website today. Thank you Doug for the concern. Allan...:)


[ed. Thank you for the update. dr]
 
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