Concensus

Before I came on this forum I used to participate in a homebuilt discussion group. I soon found that there was a guru who had a bunch of sycophants holding tightly to his ankles. When anyone wrote anything that was not along the lines of popular orthodoxy everyone waited with baited breath for the guru's response. If he concurred, the sycophants raised their glasses to him.
But if guru Jim found fault, the sycophants jumped right in and made fun of the poor individual. I soon found this site not to my liking, as sometimes my ideas are, to say the least, somewhat controversial.Often we choose to use sentence structure that is imprecise, such as making statements as opposed to offering opinions. If you can back up a statement with unequivocal facts, please do, but when you ofter an opinion, such as "I think..." or "IMHO", it just becomes as valuable or valueless as any other opinion. Even if you can say that 1000 or 1,000,000 people agree with you, concensus is no substutute for facts. Can a bee fly?

I am starting to find that there are some contributors who are diving upon an opinion expressed by another with their own opinion expressed in a somewhat desultory or degraded manner that suggests that if you disagree with me you have your head in the wrong place. The monitors seem to do a good job of controlling this, as on at least two occasions I've had my knuckles wrapped with Sister Godiva's ruler. My remarks grew out of impatience or testiness. So again, let your responses be "Yes, Yes; No, No."; 'sorry forgot where I was - Let your response be "This is my opinion." or "Here are the facts." Agree?

Agree... and that's all I have to say about that.

Sycophant?

I had to look that one up! I thought maybe that was an elephant with a mental illness. Of course, I went to college in Louisiana, so that may explain part of that...

D-Dubya said:

I had to look that one up! I thought maybe that was an elephant with a mental illness. Of course, I went to college in Louisiana, so that may explain part of that...

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Cute, cute! That must have been my word-of-the-day on my calendar. But that kind really are sickos! Besides; if I had used such a crass phrase as butt-kissers, I might not have gotten it past the monitors. But even though they seem to be a nice bunch of guys, I think the "sycophants" sailed by several inches above their noggins.

Hey.. Easy on Louisiana! I didn't even go to college. LOL

elippse said:

Cute, cute! That must have been my word-of-the-day on my calendar. But that kind really are sickos! Besides; if I had used such a crass phrase as butt-kissers, I might not have gotten it past the monitors. But even though they seem to be a nice bunch of guys, I think the "sycophants" sailed by several inches above their noggins.

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Nope, we very well know the meaning of "sycophants"....and several more high-dollar words.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.......

3 toughest years in a Cajun's life...

... the Third Grade!

Sam Buchanan said:

Nope, we very well know the meaning of "sycophants"....and several more high-dollar words.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.......

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Well, I guess I'll have to get out Roget's, or Bill O'Reilly's word of the day, or just a typical Peter Garrison article in FLYING. Besides, I like keeping you guys on your toes. Have you ever seen Mrs. Byrne's Dictionary of Unusual, Obscure, and Preposterous Words, by Josefa Heifitz Byrne? That will astound you!!!

Try me!

Paul, I really enjoy your articles and insights. Don't "tone down" your vocabulary, thinking that we're not quite "there" yet

I'd like to give you a run for your money, since I was educated by the Brits in Rhodesia, when a high school diploma was really something!! The only difference will be in words like "color" or "colour".

....and that's my opinion of the subject

Best,

Whatever you do, though, always be sure to eschew obfuscation.

Consensus

Correct spelling IMHO is Consensus, then again I'm Dutch, not a native speaker although my ICAO language proficiency level suggests the contrary..

elippse said:

Even if you can say that 1000 or 1,000,000 people agree with you, concensus is no substutute for facts. Can a bee fly?

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Actually regarding priming, consensus beats facts any day. And I believe it is a bumble bee that can or cannot fly, ordinary bees are not affected.

Huh?

I'm still trying to figure out the point of the original post. Is the OP commenting on the other forum he used to participate in, or this forum?

elippse said:

but when you ofter an opinion, such as "I think..." or "IMHO", it just becomes as valuable or valueless as any other opinion.

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So, in your opinion then, we are to avoid giving OUR opinion, and only state what we believe to be fact, and by so doing we would then BECOME the de-facto "guru" on this board collecting our sycophants, leading to its ultimate demise as well.

No thanks. Experimental class is all about opinions and the variety of them. If you want certainty, go certificated - they have real gurus (and sycophants - lots of 'em).

An open experimental forum like this will by default carry a lot of diverse opinions, held by individuals of widely varying knowledge and experience. It is up to the individual contributor on the board to ask a question, listen to all the answers, and try to discern where the intelligence lies. Over time an intelligent listener will learn who the knowledgable contributors are, and will begin to use an internal filter on responses to queries based on that.

airguy said:

So, in your opinion then, we are to avoid giving OUR opinion, and only state what we believe to be fact, and by so doing we would then BECOME the de-facto "guru" on this board collecting our sycophants, leading to its ultimate demise as well.

No thanks. Experimental class is all about opinions and the variety of them. If you want certainty, go certificated - they have real gurus (and sycophants - lots of 'em).

An open experimental forum like this will by default carry a lot of diverse opinions, held by individuals of widely varying knowledge and experience. It is up to the individual contributor on the board to ask a question, listen to all the answers, and try to discern where the intelligence lies. Over time an intelligent listener will learn who the knowledgable contributors are, and will begin to use an internal filter on responses to queries based on that.

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Well said, Greg.

By definition, opinion is not necessarily based on facts. I may opine that I think the sky looks orange today, and that statement is really unassailable. It doesn't make it factual, but it is still my opinion, as wrong as it may be. That's the beauty of opinions -- everybody has one.

I understand the OP's intent, however. Sometimes on this site, as well as nearly every other online discussion board on the Internet, people enjoy declaring their opinions as factual, when in fact, their statements are not.

In a hobby-based discussion board such as VAF, we builders often opine on the "best" way to do something because it works. Others support that opinion, and then some know-it-all like Paul Dye, Brantel, or either Horton pops up and destroys the claims with facts, always in a very knowledgeable and courteous way. Nothing wrong with that. Facts beat opinion any day.

However, discussions quickly erode into pi$$ing matches when opinion butts head with opinion -- neither based solely on facts. I think THAT was the gist of the OP's declaration, NOT that we shouldn't offer opinions on VAF.

Regardless, I have so little true knowledge about much of anything that just about anything I ever post here is just my opinion!

William Slaughter said:

Whatever you do, though, always be sure to eschew obfuscation.

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And never use a long word when a diminutive one will do...

But, while my vocabulary is quite good and I don't see any obvious grammatical errors, two readings of the first post have not rendered me any wiser regarding the subject or the point being made. Perhaps this is part of some ongoing discussion in another thread and I am simply missing some background? Whatever the case, it doesn't seem relevant to either RVs or my experiences on this forum so I guess it's Ok.

I find opinions here very thought-provoking. If it is something I have not considered, then I may actually learn something. Without opinions, this would be a pretty dead forum.

Now, on the original post, was it fact or opinion? The answer is obviously yes! Will I continue to give my opinion from time to time? Yes, I guess not...

Bob

William Slaughter said:

Whatever you do, though, always be sure to eschew obfuscation.

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I try, I try!!!