Van's Air Force
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Silka a slider?
- Thread starter bret
- Start date
Flyguytki
Well Known Member
it sure is, There is not a single rivet or hole in my Slider Canopy. I even used Sika to glue my One piece fiberglass canopy skirt to the canopy. heres some pictures if you would like to see.
http://n87dx.com/category/canopy/
http://n87dx.com/category/canopy/
Lionclaw
Well Known Member
Lies!
I see a hole for the canopy handle. Mine looks very much the same as David's. 255 hours and no problems for me.
lostpilot28
Well Known Member
Hey Bret,
It's been done a lot. The search will get you lots of good info and pictures. Mine is going on 4 years and holding up great. I'd do it the same way if I ever built again.
It's been done a lot. The search will get you lots of good info and pictures. Mine is going on 4 years and holding up great. I'd do it the same way if I ever built again.
DakotaHawk
Well Known Member
Yep, no problems with my RV-7 slider with over 500 hours. Only one hole in the canopy - for the canopy latch.
I built a fiberglass skirt instead of the aluminum skirt, and used SikaFlex to glue it in place. No worries about spider cracks on my canopy!
I built a fiberglass skirt instead of the aluminum skirt, and used SikaFlex to glue it in place. No worries about spider cracks on my canopy!
Bret you're killing me. Brian keeps telling me how fast your 7 is coming together.
Food for though on the canopy, I went round and round on sika or traditional, then I found this post:
There are plenty of guys flying with 1000+ hours on their canopy and 15+ years, don't know any sika canopys that have that kind of longevity testing. My problem is how do you know until the thing comes off? YMMV.
Food for though on the canopy, I went round and round on sika or traditional, then I found this post:
There are plenty of guys flying with 1000+ hours on their canopy and 15+ years, don't know any sika canopys that have that kind of longevity testing. My problem is how do you know until the thing comes off? YMMV.
Thread drift:
We know there is a low pressure area over the canopy that is strong enough that it prevents movement if you forget to latch it. How do you know its going to hold up after a few years of UV exposure, hot/cold cycles, etc? If its going to fail, it probably wont be slowly, and the idea of the canopy peeling off and hitting the vert stab doesn't appeal. The manufacturer says don't do it (everyone will dismiss this as a liability issue).
Just one mans opinion, go for it if you want. That's the beauty of Experimental.
David-aviator
Well Known Member
As near as I can tell, RV builders have been using SikaFlex for at least 8 years. To date there are no reports of a canopy leaving the airframe and just one incident of cracking (and it attributed by the builder to lack of adequate edge smoothness - there have been many reports of cracked canopies attached with rivets). How well Sika sticks to powder coat paint may be an issue but it is designed to work with plastic and does. If there is a concern that the frame paint will release the entire canopy, Sika and all, then better go with rivets.
Last week the canopy and frame were mated here with Sika and somehow a small amount of primer got under the masking tape. I did not notice it until the tape was removed and by then the primer had dried quite hard.
There was a report on this forum that it could be removed easily by finger nail as it won't stick to plastic not scuffed up. WRONG! The only way I could remove it was to scrape it with the edge of knife. The resulting marked surface was fixed with Micro Mesh.
If there is a down side to Sika, it is that it is messy not unlike pro-seal. The stuff is mighty tough and does indeed stick to plastic.
The issue of cold weather cracking of rivet attached canopies is not a safety issue, yet, only because none of crack events have resulted in the canopy leaving the airplane.
The issue here is liability (Sika) and not wanting to fix something that in their opinion is not broken (Vans).
That being said, I do not recommend to anyone the use of SikaFlex.
Last week the canopy and frame were mated here with Sika and somehow a small amount of primer got under the masking tape. I did not notice it until the tape was removed and by then the primer had dried quite hard.
There was a report on this forum that it could be removed easily by finger nail as it won't stick to plastic not scuffed up. WRONG! The only way I could remove it was to scrape it with the edge of knife. The resulting marked surface was fixed with Micro Mesh.
If there is a down side to Sika, it is that it is messy not unlike pro-seal. The stuff is mighty tough and does indeed stick to plastic.
The issue of cold weather cracking of rivet attached canopies is not a safety issue, yet, only because none of crack events have resulted in the canopy leaving the airplane.
The issue here is liability (Sika) and not wanting to fix something that in their opinion is not broken (Vans).
That being said, I do not recommend to anyone the use of SikaFlex.
bret
Well Known Member
I am years away from moving to the airfield, funds being the main reason, saving up for fan unit and inflight TV thing. I plan on first engine start in the driveay...stay tuned
BSwayze
Well Known Member
Well, I used SIKA on my tip-up, and I have personally helped two other builders do their canopies as well. One of them was a slider. It came out very nice! But more to the point of the quote above, one of the data points that convinced me on using SIKA is a story I read, right here on VAF, about a canopy that DID depart the plane... while it was on a trailer on the way to the hanger! The builder had forgotten to latch the canopy in place first. As it flew off, it tumbled and crashed along the highway, and as you would expect, it was smashed and broken and completely ruined. However... there was NOWHERE on the frame where the SIKA had failed. That did it for me! I wish I could remember the builder, and find the story here. Does anyone else remember this?
The only other comment I might make is that we live in a lawsuit-happy country. Too many lawyers, too many lawsuits, too much at risk when it comes to liability. You know what I'm talking about. For that reason alone, I don't think we'll ever see SIKA endorsed by the company, or by Vans. That doesn't mean it's not a valid attachment method. If you want to use SIKA, just make sure you do it right. Use all the recommended procedures, products, and follow the directions to the letter. Oh... and one more thing... as part of your annual (at a minimum!) take a very close look at the canopy. Examine the bonding of the material, look it over, every square inch, and check it for signs of weakness. Your canopy isn't going to just fly off some day, if you watch for signs of deterioration or weakness as the years pass.
Just my humble opinion, on all of the above comments.
After doing a LOT of reading and emailing with other builders, and research on the stuff....
I just ordered all the Sika supplies.
226, 209 and 295i (the new updated 295UV).
FYI, sailboatowners.com was about $60 cheaper than jamestowndistributors. The primer alone was about $23 cheaper.
I just ordered all the Sika supplies.
226, 209 and 295i (the new updated 295UV).
FYI, sailboatowners.com was about $60 cheaper than jamestowndistributors. The primer alone was about $23 cheaper.
bret
Well Known Member
After doing a LOT of reading and emailing with other builders, and research on the stuff....
I just ordered all the Sika supplies.
226, 209 and 295i (the new updated 295UV).
FYI, sailboatowners.com was about $60 cheaper than jamestowndistributors. The primer alone was about $23 cheaper.
Another sourse is Merritt Marine, around 70.00 cheaper than James town.
As near as I can tell, RV builders have been using SikaFlex for at least 8 years. To date there are no reports of a canopy leaving the airframe and just one incident of cracking (and it attributed by the builder to lack of adequate edge smoothness - there have been many reports of cracked canopies attached with rivets). How well Sika sticks to powder coat paint may be an issue but it is designed to work with plastic and does. If there is a concern that the frame paint will release the entire canopy, Sika and all, then better go with rivets.
The issue here is liability (Sika) and not wanting to fix something that in their opinion is not broken (Vans).
That being said, I do not recommend to anyone the use of SikaFlex.
After doing a bunch of reading on the subject I came to these conclusions:
1.) It looks much easier to apply/attach than rivets, and much less stressful on both me and the canopy.
2.) Sika is used for installation of windows in a marine enviroment. Growing up on the water and around boats, I know how harsh this is. If salt water and never ending sunlight in a boat slip aren't enough to break it down....
3.) The data says it has a tensile strength of 160psi. Doing some quick eyeball math, and assuming a 1" wide fillet all the way around I get about 350 square inches of contact area. 350x160=you're never ever going to get even 5% of the way there.
Sorry to jack your thread there Bret!
Sikaflex
I bought a Todds tinted canopy and sold my Vans to a builder who had his RV8 canopy crack in the paint shop(ouch).
You figure you have steel, plastic and fiberglass, all with different coefficients of expansion(fancy word) that need to go together. Sikaflex is by far the best choice IMHO.
I bought a Todds tinted canopy and sold my Vans to a builder who had his RV8 canopy crack in the paint shop(ouch).
You figure you have steel, plastic and fiberglass, all with different coefficients of expansion(fancy word) that need to go together. Sikaflex is by far the best choice IMHO.
Sikaflex
I bought a Todds tinted canopy and sold my Vans to a builder who had his RV8 canopy crack in the paint shop(ouch).
You figure you have steel, plastic and fiberglass, all with different coefficients of expansion(fancy word) that need to go together. Sikaflex is by far the best choice IMHO.
I bought a Todds tinted canopy and sold my Vans to a builder who had his RV8 canopy crack in the paint shop(ouch).
You figure you have steel, plastic and fiberglass, all with different coefficients of expansion(fancy word) that need to go together. Sikaflex is by far the best choice IMHO.
bret
Well Known Member
Its all good. the more info I read, the more at ease I am using this stuff. If you look at the expansion rate of steel and plexi, 10 to 1, I think, I don't see how more of the drilled canopys have not cracked, where we are, the temps range from -10 to 105 F! that is a BIG change in temps, so what kind of stress is on every rivet in those old school canopys? sory, just had to throw that in there....
Caummisar
Well Known Member
Sika Flex 295UV vs Sika Flex 295i UV
When doing research for the future when I might SikaFlex my canopy, my internet searches found SikaFlex 295i UV instead of SikaFlex 295UV. [Notice the "i" in the product name.] This is from the Jamestown Distributers website:
SikaFlex 295i UV is an updated version of 295 UV, with no added solvents and lower VOC content. The latest addition to the i-Cure lineup, Sika 295i UV is a fast curing, one-component, flexible, high performance polyurethane-based adhesive bonding polycarbonate and acrylic windows, or sealing open joints between glass, ceramics, fiberglass, metals, as well as many types of plastics and paints.
Thought this might keep others from scratching their heads like I did.
When doing research for the future when I might SikaFlex my canopy, my internet searches found SikaFlex 295i UV instead of SikaFlex 295UV. [Notice the "i" in the product name.] This is from the Jamestown Distributers website:
SikaFlex 295i UV is an updated version of 295 UV, with no added solvents and lower VOC content. The latest addition to the i-Cure lineup, Sika 295i UV is a fast curing, one-component, flexible, high performance polyurethane-based adhesive bonding polycarbonate and acrylic windows, or sealing open joints between glass, ceramics, fiberglass, metals, as well as many types of plastics and paints.
Thought this might keep others from scratching their heads like I did.
