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Group buy for quarter turn fastners

kboyd59

Active Member
I would like to thank everyone for the interest shown in the cowling fastener group buy. I talked to Jeremy of Milspeck today and he advised he had contacted Doug Reeves with the info and Doug has posted the info in the Group buy/discounts forum and on the front page of the VAF website, please check these two locations for further information and updates on how the group buy is progressinhg.

Ken
RV9A
(57KB)reserved
 
Cowl fastener Group Buy is under way.

O.K., it looks like we are on track. I am assuming most of you are familiar with our previous group buys and how they worked but, If there are any questions, just let me know. Anyone wanting to take advantage of the group buy discounts, please contact me so we can get the list together and start shipping ASAP. DR is posting updates in the group buy forum and I will keep him informed of our progress. Thanks! :)

Best regards,
Jeremy Summers
MilSpec Products, Inc.
T 352-735-0065
F 352-735-0504
E [email protected]
www.milspecproducts.com
 
Are they the same?

Are these fasteners the same as the Skybolt CLoc adjustable fasteners? If so, are they similar to the Skybolt light duty or the heavy duty? Also, do they provide an RV kit with the appropriate amount for the cowl, etc? I am trying to analyze my cowling needs but do not know much about these systems. Any help on understanding this is appreciated.
 
Steve,

These are very similar to the Skybolt heavy duty parts but MilSpec manufactures them in house to our own specs. They have the same adjustability feature which makes the fitting process easy. The model specific kits for RVs can be found here www.milspecproducts.com/KITPLANES.htm along with additional info and pics. If you need anything else just let me know.

Best,
Jeremy
 
I'm still trying to figure out which way to go on this. Are folks happy with how these work. Are there horror stories -- or not -- with the Van's attachment method. Do I want the firewall "only" (whatever exactly that is), just the side, or the whole deal?

What are the pros and cons of all the options?
 
Bob Collins said:
I'm still trying to figure out which way to go on this. Are folks happy with how these work. Are there horror stories -- or not -- with the Van's attachment method. Do I want the firewall "only" (whatever exactly that is), just the side, or the whole deal?

What are the pros and cons of all the options?


I'm with Bob. I liked the cowl removal on my Cherokee (Screws and nutplates) so these would be really nice. On the other hand, the hinge leaves a really clean look.
 
Speed

Has anyone compared the ease and speed between the hinge/pin versus qtr turn? I think anything that promotes a frequent inspection up front would make me lean toward that.
 
Firewall only !

I am interested in the camlocks around the firewall (and stick with the Vans design along the cowling split, to avoid the buckling and have a cleaner look)
How many will I need for my RV9 around the firewall?

Regards, PilotTonny
 
Firewall only

Tonny,

Granted the hinge system does give you a cleaner look, as there is little to no visible attachment point between the upper and lower cowls. However, the buckling issue has been addressed in the newer generation SJ and Vans cowls because they have added a reinforcement (doubler) strip along the cowling edge. This stiffens the cowl much like many production Cessna, Beech, Mooney etc. cowls that have a similar aluminum structure along the edges for the same reason. SJ also uses a cored composite lay up that increases the rigidity of the cowl more than their earlier versions. In addition the kits MilSpec offers assume 3.5? spacing between fasteners which is a little tighter than kits offered in the past that had 4? spacing. Some people like the looks and ease of the quarter turns, some like the hinge better. It?s a personal preference really. For cowls that are not reinforced, you can use a simple fiberglass cloth and resin lay up adjacent to the edge of the top and bottom cowls along the horizontal sides to add stiffness without increasing the thickness at the fastener line. This can even be added after the aircraft has been flown if a buckling issue does arise. The firewall area can actually use wider spacing (4?) if desired, because the receptacle mount strip attached to the fuselage adds significant support. The RV9 kits we offer contain 30 set ups for just the firewall. If you want more or less, we can make arrangements to alter the count to suit whatever you may want. The cost would adjust accordingly and the same discount would apply.

Keep the questions coming, I like to stay sharp and it makes our kits better in the long run!

Best,
Jeremy
MilSpec
 
So primarily we're talking a -1-- cosmetic appearance or -2- ease of getting the cowl off and on ?

Are those primarily the two main things to consider before deciding whether to drop the dough?

It sounds like hinges win #1 . I assume this kit wins #2. But by how much?
 
Bob Collins said:
I'm still trying to figure out which way to go on this. Are folks happy with how these work. Are there horror stories -- or not -- with the Van's attachment method. Do I want the firewall "only" (whatever exactly that is), just the side, or the whole deal?

What are the pros and cons of all the options?


Bob, Paul, Others,

You may want to search the forums for terms like cowl, hinge, camloc milspec, groups buy. There is a lot of good info here from previous groups we have put together that may answer some questions. In any event if there is sometheing not addressed that you want to know, just contact me or post here and I'll do my best. BTW Scott Haskins (tx_jayhawk) has a good bit of info on this as well. He set up the original group buy with us. Thanks Scott!

B,
Jeremy
AKA Thatchman
 
I actually did do some searching for the previous group buy but most of the threads were about the same... and it was kinda like coming in in the middle of a conversation.

Somewhere there should be an article on why I would want to spend, say, $400 on these. What is the advantage that buys me over the Van's system?

I haven't found it yet and usually if there's stuff I just GOTTA have, it's usually not hard finding the thread or message or article that tells me why I gotta have it.

I have no doubt these are high quality goods, but I'm looking for someone selling me these things to sell me ON these things first.:D
 
Bob, I did a lot of searching on the subject, and as usual it's in the eye of the beholder. In the final analysis, here is what I decided to do and why...

Two cowl halves are joined with hinges and pins per Van's. Did it, works well and looks good.

Sides of the lower cowl are attached to the firewall with hinges and pins, works well, looks good and is quick and easy to use.

Bottom of cowl is attached to the firewall with screws and nutplates. Pins down there seemed hard to get at and as I don't think the bottom cowl will be removed too frequently, screws work for me.

Top cowl at firewall, I didn't like the hinge and pins because I tried them on a friends plane and they were hard to reinsert. That may be just because of the way he fitted his I don't know, but I didn't like it. So I m electing to attach the top cowl at the firewall with Loc's. I believe in looking into the engine compartment every day that I fly and I want that to be easy... birds are very clever!

I figure I will need about a dozen Loc's, there isn't a kit offered for this so I guess I will just buy what I need an forge on.

Larry
 
Bob Collins said:
I actually did do some searching for the previous group buy but most of the threads were about the same... and it was kinda like coming in in the middle of a conversation.

Somewhere there should be an article on why I would want to spend, say, $400 on these. What is the advantage that buys me over the Van's system?

I haven't found it yet and usually if there's stuff I just GOTTA have, it's usually not hard finding the thread or message or article that tells me why I gotta have it.

I have no doubt these are high quality goods, but I'm looking for someone selling me these things to sell me ON these things first.:D


Bob,

Basically this comes down to a personal preference issue. As with anything when your building an aircraft there are tradeoffs to be made and each builder has to make those decisions for themselves. In this case it is utility and ease of use versus less expense and what was originally proposed by Vans. I?m not trying to necessarily ?sell? you something but rather offer a product that I personally believe to be better than the hinge design. Why is it better? Well, IMHO, quarter turns are easier to work with on a day to day basis, a couple of quick pops and you can get to anything under the cowl for inspection, maintenance or just to show off all your hard work to the local audience. Plus, you can get the cowls on and off by yourself with minimal effort. The hinges can be difficult to work with when one person is trying to get the cowl on, especially the firewall portion. Also, in some instances they have a tendency to develop stress cracks over time at the eyelets or rivet locations. Which then requires drilling out rivets and replacing the broken parts. Those of you with hinges please don?t be offended I am not saying this will happen, it?s just that it has happened in the field more than a few times. The RVs are a little different but most, if not all production aircraft use some sort of quarter turn or latching mechanism on the cowls for convenience of the owner and mechanic. I haven?t seen one with the hinge arrangement in my experience. The hinge is less expensive and some would say looks better. On the other hand some would say they like the tough, industrial type look of the quarter turns. Again this is a personal preference. One thing is for sure the quarter turns will allow you to get the cowls on and off quicker and easier. Regardless, I am sure you will have a great looking, performance aircraft whatever your choice is for the cowl fastening system.

If you need anything else, please let me know.

Best,
Jeremy
MS
 
I'm Confused

Could someone please clarify how to be included in this group buy? I sent a PM to "Thatchman" per the instructions in the "VAF Group Buys / Discounts " forum on 6/22, but received no response. I'm confused and I'm concerned others may be also. The visibility of this group buy and how to be included seems to have diminished since it was relegated to the "group buys" forum.
 
:eek:
I'm sorry about that Paul, my IT guy changed our e-mail addresses a couple of weeks ago and I forgot to change it here. My bad. At any rate I will set you up for the group as per your request. I have also noticed a drop off in the number of participants. I will see about posting another update in the group buy forum with the hope of increasing the visibility. Once I have a final count on the number of participants I will get in touch with everyone for shipping, billing info and let you know how deep the discount is. If you have any questions or need additonal information, please let me know. Again, sorry about the inconvenience.

Best,
Jeremy Summers
MilSpec
T 352-735-0065
[email protected]
 
Camloks

Bob Collins said:
I actually did do some searching for the previous group buy but most of the threads were about the same... and it was kinda like coming in in the middle of a conversation.

Somewhere there should be an article on why I would want to spend, say, $400 on these. What is the advantage that buys me over the Van's system?

I haven't found it yet and usually if there's stuff I just GOTTA have, it's usually not hard finding the thread or message or article that tells me why I gotta have it.

I have no doubt these are high quality goods, but I'm looking for someone selling me these things to sell me ON these things first.:D

Bob,
The hinges are difficult to route around the outer radius of the cowl and their ends stick up out of the cowl, unless you get real creative and find a way to hide them inside the cowl. We used 12 stainless camloks (the cheaper ones, not like Skybolt) on the upper cowl and three on the underside (each side) of the lower cowl..255 trouble free hours so far...oh yeah, with the pins sticking up, they'll snag your wash-rag too :D Used hinges on the sides and on the firewall for the lower cowl.

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Regards,
Pierre
 
Number of Fasteners?

Jeremy,

How many individual fasteners (one stud + one receptacle + grommets) are included in the following kits?

RV8-C1P (Complete set - Phillips) $446.00 Retail

RV8-C1P-FW (Firewall Only Kit - Phillips) $266.00 Retail

RV8-C1P-Side (Side Only Kit - Phillips) $213.20 Retail

I am planning to go with a combination of hinges and MILSPEC camlocs. I suspect that I should be buying the Side Only Kit, but I'm not sure how many fasteners are included with this kit. I need a minimum of 12 fasteners, but a few spare fasteners might be a good idea.

Thank You,

Bill Palmer
 
Cowling Fastener Counts

Bill,

RV8-C1P = 48 set ups
RV8-C1P-FW = 28 set ups
RV8-C1P-SD = 20 set ups

All kits include drill templates, and rivets for the receptacles. Complete kits also include some screws and nutplates for the nose bowl area.

Best,
Jer
 
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Group buy

I sent DR a email requesting a RV67910-C1P-FW so count me in.How much trouble am I in on a retrofit as I will testify the hinge pin is a pain.Fly a 9A since Nov.
 
Fastener count

rv9builder said:
How many fasteners do you need to just do a row along the bottom of the lower cowling on a 9A?

Mark,
If you you mean bottom of the lower cowling at the firewall we recommend 17 or if you mean along the horizontal sides from the firewall forward to the nose we recommend 20. This assumes 3.5" - 4" spacing. If you need anything else, please let me know.

Best,
Jeremy
 
Closing date is July 21, 2007. So far the count looks to be 18 with a couple of people on the fence waiting to see how deep the discount gets. We would like to start shipping ASAP. So theoretically, as soon as we can get to a firm 30 people (max. discout threshold) we could start shipping. If you need anything else, please let me know.

best,
Jeremy
 
ok, count me in.

Well I have been trying to decide what to do. I think I am interested in the fasteners along the firewall but not sure about the horizontal along the top and bottom cowl split. I think I am interested in the hinges at that area of the cowl.

So, Please count me in on the group buy and let me know via private message or whatever what I need to do to order.
 
I'm In

Please add me to the list for a full RV67910-C1P kit. Public message with payment instructions will do, but a private followup would be nice.
 
Thanks!

It's really great to have so much support in the RV community. Thanks to everyone, especially DR without whom none of this would be possible. We are now at the 20% (20 builders) mark for this group and I hope we can pick up just 10 more before July 21 so everyone gets an even better deal (30%). In another week or so I will request final shipping and billing info via e-mail or PM and I will also advise every one of the discount details and an ETA for your parts. In the mean time If there is anything else I can do, please let me know.

Best,
Jeremy
MilSpec Products, Inc.
T 352-735-0065
F 352-735-0504
E [email protected]
W www.milspecproducts.com
 
milspec groupbuy

I'm glad i stumbled into this group buy before its too late. sign me up for one complete kit phillips style and tools. (snap ring - camlock pliers)

steven dinieri
iflyrv10.com
402054
[email protected]
 
Last edited:
30% getting close??

How many is this buy up to? I'm "on the fence" and getting to the next level would probably do it for me.... (I sent a PM)
 
If we get to 30%...

I am interested in RV67910-C1P-FW (firewall only for a 9A) along with the 4P3 and MS-T26 tools. Please let me know if and when we get to 30% and you can count me in.

Peter K
 
Hinge woes?

I haven't "been there" with Van's hinge, but am getting the MilSpec kit all the way around for my -8A because: have you ever bent one of the ears on an aluminum hinge? It's pretty easy to do and a bugger to get back straight and in-line with the adjacent ones. If you don't get the alignment just right - putting the pin back in is a major pain :eek: Not something I look forward to.

Just my forward looking 2 cents.

Jeff
 
milspec

Jeremy at milspec is all about customer service. i wish all my rv experiences had been this great.
 
Milspec group buy

Please put me down for (1) RV67910-C1P-SIDE, and 1 each Tools 4P3, MS-T26, MS-PK with discounts to be advised. Can you confirm how many C-Lock fastener "sets" are in this -SIDE kit?

Thanks.
 
Jeremy says count has hit enought for 30% discount

Just talked to Jeremy and he will soon post a note that we have hit the number required for a 30% discount.

Trying to decide on complete kit or just firewall for RV7.
 
Cowl Fastener Group Buy Update #3

:) Way to go VAF! We now have 40+ on the official group list bringing us well into the maximum 30% discount. So, we can start shipping and I would like to take this opportunity to ask everyone to call in (or fax, e-mail / pm) with your details for shipping and billing. I have the interested builders list and will make sure we take care of everyone as we progress. Anyone that has not yet added their name can still get in on the deal but please do so before July 21. For convenience I have posted an order sheet here www.quickreleasefasteners.com if you want to fill it out and fax it in.

Also, any suggestions, pictures and even complaints during and after your installation are always appreciated, because I only want to make the best possible products and back them up with exceptional service. Finally, I want to extend a Big Thank You to everyone for choosing genuine MilSpec Products for your aircraft and to DR for all of his effort in supporting VAF. If there are any questions just let me know and everyone, please have a great weekend!

Best regards,
Jeremy Summers
VAF #921 - Thatchman
MilSpec Products, Inc.
Tel. 352-735-0065
Mobile 407-595-7385
Fax 352-735-0504
E-mail: [email protected]
 
Last edited:
Thatchman said:
On Friday and again today I attempted to email to the listed address by cutting and pasting the email address above into my message. Both times I have immediately received a delivery failure. It appears the word "earthlink" is misspelled in the address. I do believe this misspelling is in more than one location on this thread. You might want to look at correcting it so others will not stumble on this also.
 
e-mail correction

Nothing gets past you guys. Thanks for the heads up. I will search the posts I have made and correct the error where ever I find it. Sorry for the inconvenience. BTW we shipped the first 8 kits today, more to follow ASAP.

Thanks again,
Jeremy
MilSpec
[email protected] :eek:
 
Count me in for a RV-8 full kit, RV8-C1P. No hurry for them as I am buying things I know I'm going to need as the funds allow. Let me know the details.

Thanks
 
Last Day for Cowl Fastener Group

Just a quick note to let everyone know we have reached the end of the group buy. The last day to get in on the deal is tomorrow Saturday 7-21-2007. I think I have been in contact with everyone that wanted in and have your orders shipped or in process. We had a great response (stopped counting at 50+). Thanks to all of you. If I forgot about anyone or you want to sneak in just under the wire, please let me know. Otherwise those of you heading out to OSH have a great time and everyone enjoy your weekend! :D

Best.
Jeremy Summers
MilSpec Products, Inc.
www.milspecproducts.com
 
Just ordered my cowling fasteners. Friendly, knowledgeable people at Mil-Spec. Highly recommend them.
 
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